Oshi no Ko Rewatch - Season 2, Episode 2 Discussion

**Longtime B-Komachi Fan!**

What an appropriate name for this episode. I'm also reminded of the phrase "too many cooks in the kitchen" because it seems that's what is happening here, with critiques and revisions passing through such a large creative team that they can't settle on a clear vision. I kind of feel bad for GOA (script writer guy). He was actually a fan of the original story, so hearing the manga creator lay into him like that had to hurt.

[](#nobully)

And now that we know what the (first) big conflict of the season will be, time shifts backwards to show the events leading up to it. I mentioned in the previous episode discussion thread that I much prefer to see things in chronological order (and that's how it was shown in the manga). This way often makes the story feel like it's lacking a proper build-up for me.

[](#hardthink)

Aqua bluntly admitting to Akane that he doesn't care much for plays was funny - and a pretty big diss, considering that's her main line of work. But she's determined to change his mind.

[](#faito)

**Questions of the Day:**

1) I think the manga creator needs to be more specific with her criticisms. It needs to be constructive - instead of just saying "the character wouldn't act like this", tell them what the character *would* do. It's understandable that she wouldn't want key story elements or characterization changed, but adapting any long-running series into a 2-hour movie or play is naturally going to need some streamlining, so both sides kind of have to meet somewhere in the middle.

2) Nope, this is the kind of manga/anime I would have absolutely no interest in. Not a fan of supernatural battle shonen.

**Semi-Rewatcher**

[Yo!](#loliwave)

Finally have the time for it, so I'll be joining the rewatch here! I actually watched part of this season back when it was airing last year, and got up to episode 6 IIRC, but alas that was also around the same time I dropped seasonals altogether, so it's been on-hold since then with me waiting for an excuse like this to finish it lol.

Anyway, this episode takes quite the deep dive into the very difficult creative process behind adaptation, and on a larger scale, the importance of communication. Before that, though, we do take a little step back in time to do some stage setting, with the changes to Melt's character certainly coming across the most here. It's fun seeing Kana and Melt being a lot more straightforward with each other, but more importantly, it's great seeing Melt being more straightforward with... *himself*.

You do kind of get a tiny glimpse into that communication idea with Melt saying that if he was actually more straightforwardly told that he sucked, he'd have realized it sooner, but much more fundamentally, it's obviously about self-awareness and effort. And the fact that he can even make a statement like that and then call it an excuse should tell you that he's quite changed since the last production we've seen him in. He's grown very aware of how bad he was, isn't expecting any slack on that, and is very sincerely trying for improvement! I find the small bits of self-consciousness to be particularly indicative of him growing beyond someone who's just in it as a promotional gig. A great development on a character that was otherwise just a commentary on bad promotional/celebrity casting. Which it still kind of is, though! A good reminder that, *especially* at Melt's age, these things aren't nearly as black or white as they seem.

That aside, Akane trying to get closer to Aqua and to express her sincere feelings of gratitude to him is cute, and Kana's very openly dissatisfied reactions to that are even more fun! For what it's worth, while I'll probably agree with her about the strenuous at best impact of casting people with IRL relationships to equivalent relationship roles, it is always fun to learn that's the case,e regardless, isn't it? If nothing else, it's good marketing!

[](#kotohoops)

The meat of the episode is obviously the huge conflict between Abiko and GOA regarding the script for the play. Like I said earlier, the *really* big point of contention here is ultimately communication, and I think it does a great job at matching that theme with how it portrays both sides of the issue. Despite the very explosive tirade she ends up doing, I think her meetup with Yoriko paints a picture of someone who's quite the opposite of *arrogant*. She actually has some clear issues with value perception, if anything, given how she treats Yoriko, where even through a comedic scene like the toothbrushing one, you get the sense that she puts Yoriko's time over hers.

But it also very intently makes it clear there that she's... well, *weird* lol. Or rather, not the most socially capable, and while beforehand that manifested in a cute way, now, it becomes very vitriolic and overly aggressive. More than that, it also really touches on the main throughline between the Sweet Today stuff and this case. Who but Yoriko would know the pains of a bad adaptation due to a lack of involvement, so you're definitely creating sympathy for her eventual reaction, even if it goes too far. Still, at the end of the day, it has to be *give and take*, and finding that balance is very hard, even more so when you're a socially awkward weirdo like Abiko, [who is clearly *extremely* passionate and prideful regarding her work](https://imgur.com/a/Yo3h0QV), and has unknowingly already been strung along by a giant line of middlemen, under the impression the person at the other end is either a hack or intentionally not complying.

This is just very interesting from a meta perspective! Blame for any form of bad adaptation has a tendency to be flung most directly at the creative heads of the adaptation, but in reality, that *can* really vary, with overreach and heavy meddling from the original creator certainly not being unheard of IRL either. In general, I think a good moral of sorts for this episode is that you really shouldn't be so assumptive about credit in large-scale creative works. That goes for someone like Abiko, tying into the idea of needing more communication, but also for any viewer who's watching. Be it in a case like Melt's or GOA's, there's always room for more nuance than you'd initially jump to think.

Nevertheless, the extent to which Abiko expresses her passion for her work here goes beyond what's really acceptable. [Yoriko and the show imply to you the full extent of what the biggest issue with not just this stage play, but Abiko's life is](https://imgur.com/a/MHdVNNc), but at the end of the day, it's exactly that terrible mix of extreme passion for something, and really bad people skills. Yes, there's sympathy to be found here, and yes, the middlemen problem easily takes the most blame, giving her a long-lasting and mistaken bad impression, but this reaction is, at its core, an overly emotional reaction that comes from her disposition.

The start of the episode also shows you that Abiko, by her own words, [knows jack about stage plays](https://imgur.com/a/ZeIlMto) (Very conspicuous pan to GOA lol). But despite how fundamentally differently they function, as we'd shown last episode with Akane, Abiko only sees things entirely through her own work and her style, and that's a bad approach! She doesn't try to understand or get across the whys and hows of it all; she cares so much about her work that if it's not her standard, it must be incompetence, and her work must be saved. Abiko can't *actually* realistically write this new script, not make it *good* anyway.

[](#foldedarms)

Funnily enough, one might almost say that Abiko's reaction proves why this middlemen system exists lol. [This is a funny line](https://imgur.com/a/Si6ckrA), but it's true. Everyone here just wants to make the best work, and not only are there massive complexities here, but for many creatives, when they think they know what's best for the work, things can get quickly heated, unduly personal, and irreparable. When dealing with a passionate artist like Abiko, direct communication is hard, and indirect is even harder when the system fails you like this.

On that note, GOA comes across as the most sympathetic here by a large margin. He's trying his absolute best as a genuine fan who's putting in extra effort into adapting a work he loves, but not only does the middlemen system fuck him over, he's also berated as a talentless hack who must've barely understood the original work by the creator of said work he genuinely loves. That's gotta hurt, and I love getting that after-the-fact reaction from him!

It's also, again, very interesting from a meta perspective, not just because this is an adaptation of a story about the woes of adaptation, but also because [his words on how powerless writers can be](https://imgur.com/a/RMBJGQy) do ring very true. I mean, just personally, even as someone who cares about anime production more than most, there's still maybe like 2 writers I can consistently spot through an adaptation, and that's also because I'm familiar with their original work. Now, in anime, the role works a little differently anyway, but the larger point about how easy it is to pin blame or miss credit stings for every medium.

[](#therethere)

Might as well also talk a bit about the OP/ED since I wasn't here for yesterday's thread. Idol and Mephisto do leave nearly impossibly large shoes to fill, but the new ones are still pretty great. Visually speaking, Fatal isn't anything too crazy but still good. The pre-chorus is definitely more visually interesting, with the stage opening to Aqua/Ruby taking off their "Masks" and revealing their true selves, being a particularly distinct and memorable visual!

But putting aside that it's still a great song ([Tatsuya Kitani](#feelsgoodman)), lyrically it's pretty stellar! Despite its rather high-tempo sound, it's quite the tragic song, and the whole thing really feels like a piece from Aqua talking about Ai and the impact she left on him. Talking about someone important being a light that was taken away, which left deep scars and a void that's very difficult to fill in. I especially love how the repeating lyrics for the chorus play on various ways to say Ai (Love, I, and sorrow, all being "Ai")!

Also, the group Kitani and Nakajima made for this song is called GEMN, which is Gemini - as in *twins*, *but with the "I" removed*. And I struggle to believe that's not intentional when the song already plays with that concept.

[](#wipetears)

No one linked it yesterday, but [they also did a First Take for this OP](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFAow6fL0A0&pp=ygUQZmF0YWwgZmlyc3QgdGFrZQ==)! Nothing too revolutionary, but it's a fun arrangement for the song, plus, as Frill says, no one dislikes watching attractive people, and I assure you, Kento Nakajima is very attractive [](#drool)

Don't have as much to say on Burning, mostly because I'm honestly still struggling to ascribe a lot of meaning to it visually or lyrically, but it's still an absolute banger of a song as well! And visually, I actually like it more than Mephisto! Naoya Nakayama storyboarded and directed both of them, and you can definitely see the stylistic similarities, but something about how this one perfectly emulates an indie rock MV, with the heaviness of the actual song just really clicks for me lol.

Also, the lead-in! More shows should do ED lead-ins, and Oshi no Ko is particularly great with them. I mean, not every episode is all that special (See, this episode), but like, last episode, with the heavy guitars coming over Abiko's shocking and aggressive "Zenbu"? Man, that's so good.

[](#cinema)

**Rewatcher/Manga Reader - Dubbed**

* Honestly for most of this season I might be on down-low just mostly paying attention
* She would have a field day with School Days because every single thing after the VN has some major character changes for the MCs (Makoto, Kotonoha, and Sekai)

Questions

* QOTD 1 - Girl why do you have to make things so complicated and vague at least explain yourself
* QOTD 2 - Not really sure since I'm not really into Battle Shonen

**Rewatcher**

The first time I watched this episode, I didnt really care and just wanted to get back to the play. Rewatching this at a slower pace does give more time to think about it when normally I would just want to get to the good bits.

Considering how many problems the mangaka had with the script, I dont know how Raida can say it was a good script with a straight face. Denying GOA the chance to be left out of the credits feels like it could be career ending.

Kana being in denial of Aqua x Akane was great.

When GOA laments the fate of adapting other's work. While its rare, there are adaptations being praised over the source material so its not unheard of even if its not a 1:1 copy. Or at least I do personally feel so. It still is mostly thankless

While Akane mentions the round stage to get around the limitations that Aqua has no interest in theater, isnt it more the exception than the norm? Considering how the IHI Around Stage is no longer a thing in Japan.



**QotD** **1:**

Likely an unpopular opinion but despite episode is trying to say that no one is at fault, it did seem like a miss on the playwright's side. Abiko sensei may have came off rude during the rehearsal but it comes from frustration at seemingly being ignored for months and inexperience. While a mangaka with more experience at having their work ~~butchered~~ adapted would have insisted to be part of the production early on to mitigate this, she's new and timid. Her inexperience led to trusting supposedly more experienced people in the chain like editors until it became clear her point isnt getting across.

But shouldnt the playwright have faced this problem before as a veteran considering \[next episode\]>!this isnt his first time adapting other works.!< Especially when he has doubts on the many revisions that felt were going nowhere. Did he ever reach back to clarify? Since it just showed him jumping straight to making the revision going "If thats what the author says then its gotta be right". I do think Akibo's editor also shoulders the blame considering the show mentions mangakas being bad at communicating isnt uncommon. Not attempting to clarify things to properly communicate Akibo's intentions when he has ready access to her and going "eh I cant make sense of it, so lets just tone it down a little and pass it along".

With Tokyo Blade being her life's work, I can see why she threatened to pull out of the project. Having seen how poorly media adaptations turn out irl, its does seem like its far better for the source material author to not have it be adapted than a poorly adapted one. It could even have the reverse effect of pushing first time theater audience who were drawn in for the work from ever watching another theater adaptation ever again and writing off the entire medium. I know I would, especially at that price point. Just hearing how live adaptations are made with inexperienced actors to use as vehicles for their career (like Sweet Today) makes me not give jdramas a chance.

The episode did highlight how she is not good socially, so I can see how being pushed to confront people when she would normally have preferred not to would lead to her blowing up while the episode seems to frame it as her having a tantrum delaying production.

Its clear that Abiko sensei isnt happy with how the characters nature have changed completely (Im guessing one of which is Sayahime) So considering the reason GOA gave to Akane, he did admit to dumbing down the story of his own accord. It wasnt a matter of cutting things out that GOA said that fans would give him grief for

**QotD 2:** nope. \[S2\]>!based on the play, the plot seems too generic and straightforward without much of a hook!<

Yep. Time to redo everything.

Seems they've got quite the good cast and crew.

Ah right the Tokyo Blade mangaka is a bit weird.

Yeah lol the double brushing.

Yeah that's absolutely no time at all to practice.

And so through the Chinese Whispers of the Byzantine bureaucracy, nothing actually gets done.

And so she's going to do it herself.

Lol Akane doesn't like how Aqua doesn't really care.

And so she's going to try and change his mind.

Questions:

1. The Mangaka has a point, but it's also _way_ too late for sweeping changes like that.
2. No, seems like action shonen which isn't typically my thing.

Abiko-sensei is unbearably childish, she saw all those people doing their best for her series but still said it was the worst and brought up canceling it on top of calling a colleague clotted even after when he confirmed he read the manga. It was quite rude since they're in a workplace environment but also hurtful for anybody who's put lots of effort into something. The author of Sweet Today explaining how she's an introvert doesn't really help but i see that Aka chose to go in this direction with her after Sweet Today live action flop to show us what it's like to get adaptations by giving extreme examples. Every creator wants the best for their story, people involved do their best to make it a good adaptation but sometimes we just can't help it, nobody's at fault, huh? In the end when i think of such cases irl, it seems to be just the matter of money/budget. I wonder how Aka or Mengo felt when their works got adapted.


So nine months has passed since Sweet Today. Melt did some training and also started to be more respectful towards people around him (both in attitude and in speech). We still don't know much about Kamoshida Sakuya-kun.


Aqua really care about nothing but revenge. Just as Akane said it's surprising for him to take the job without knowing anything about stage plays these days. Now that rehersal's cancelled, he got a chance to see what it is all about with Akane as a date. Lucky guy.


Tokyo Blade feels really similar to Demon Slayer which i dropped out at ep1 because i didn't find it engaging for myself but the show itself sure looks pretty. If we take Demon Slayer as Tokyo Blade irl, i don't think i'd watch it but it doesn't mean i'll never watch it. I'm considering giving it a second try when i have enough time.