Oshi no Ko Rewatch - Season 2, Episode 3 Discussion

**Longtime B-Komachi Fan!**

Sorry, Akane, but the whole 3D play setup actually sounds awful to me. Moving chairs, air blowing at you and hidden speakers would just feel like sensory overload and does not appeal to me at all.

[](#sick)

Seeing Aqua get excited about it was nice though, and the star in his eye was shining bright. He has a lot of inner conflict about acting for enjoyment and passion vs using it as a means to an end for his revenge, which makes these moments when he leans towards the light side of the force all the more precious. The experience even made him want to help GOA get his job back! No matter how much he tries to hide it, Aqua has a good heart.

[](#anko)

As a side note, I thought Raida telling Aqua and Akane that he likes to people watch after one of his plays to see everyone's smiling faces was very sweet. We need more wholesome moments like this from the entertainment industry side.

[](#morecomfy)

On the other hand, the scenes with Yoriko and Abiko finishing an overdue manga chapter while engaging in a screaming match didn't work as well for me. This wasn't a fault of the adaptation because I felt the same when reading the original manga. I'm just not invested in these side characters the way I am with the main cast. I like Yoriko, but Abiko kind of annoys me. Maybe it's her attitude, putting herself up on a pedestal while putting down others. At least Yoriko finally got through to her.

[](#nyanpasu)

**Questions of the Day:**

1) As I said above, this style of play doesn't appeal to me *at all*, but I've been to regular plays that ranged from okay to good. I'm with Aqua on this one though, definitely more of a movie fan.

2) I think her estimation is ridiculous. Sure, there's a percentage of creative works that I'd consider bad too, but 90%? She seriously believes most books, movies, or any other kind of stories out there are *trash*? From my POV, most of it falls within "average" - decent, even if it's nothing special - and about 2/3rds of it probably isn't my taste, but calling them trash is harsh (especially when her own manga looks like a generic supernatural battle shounen). There are a lot of stories that are good, much more than 10% of them.

3) Yeah, I'm way more invested in the main cast. I don't care for Abiko so that part kind of fell flat for me.

**Semi-Rewatcher**

Nothing quite sells a friendship like seeing two people absolutely tearing into each other!

[](#k-on-hug)

This is another episode mostly focused around the Abiko conflict, and while it doesn't quite present a resolution just yet, it *is* a major release of tension that paves the way for a more positive conclusion. A lot of that comes off the back of the conclusions reached from Aqua and Akane's inspired theater date, and while I like it thematically, I do think the execution there leaves a bit to be desired. Specifically, for what is supposed to be such a perspective-changing experience for Aqua, it's pretty disappointing that we don't *see* any of it. Only described after-the-fact that it was amazing, together with some dry technical details. Now, I get that there's only so much they could do within the scope of an anime episode, and I'd guess we get more of that in action later, but not only does it devalue the point here, it's an admittedly very small case of what might be my one big issue with this show on the whole?

Namely, OnK by nature obviously often wants to deep dive into certain facets of the entertainment industry or the creative process. And usually, that's fine! Whether it's the intricacies of human drama in the business, like last episode, or [what I can only presume is some fun (But unfortunately very true) self-inserting from Mengo and Aka](https://imgur.com/a/ILC5cjd), it usually works and makes for some interesting insight. But oftentimes it gets a bit much? Just a bit of an overreliance on straightforward/dry dialogue when the show absolutely knows to and can do it more expressively/visually. Now, again, this is a small case, but I bring it up because A) I wasn't here for the first season and jumped on the opportunity to talk about it here instead B) Just in general, this arc has had quite a bit of that so far, and by this episode, it starts getting a tad awkward and overinsistent.

That aside, though, using Aqua opening his own horizons regarding the unique strengths and advancements of theater is a good vehicle to directly approach some of the ideas last episode alluded to with Abiko and the play. Most important of which obviously being the fact that GOA wrote the play script... with the unique qualities of a play in mind! And of course, the specific *talent* and experience in that field to make it work. Again, last episode specifically highlighting that Abiko doesn't know anything about plays at all proves even more relevant now, making it abundantly clear to not just the viewer, but to the cast, that this play is going to suck at the current trajectory (Even putting Abiko's other investments aside), and that proper communication and understanding might prove the key to solving that.

Also, [Akane's reactions in this whole sequence are great](https://imgur.com/a/47DLrCY) (The characters in this have an absolutely killer fashion sense btw), and to the opposite of what I complained about earlier, I think Raida's part has some nice emotional direction here. Like [this extra little layer of very melancholy external lighting that gets added](https://imgur.com/a/kfQS1Nz) once the GOA topic comes up. [Focusing on things like minor body movements](https://imgur.com/a/1rsrD49) for is also a really strong way to get across emotional reactions, to an extent that's often truer than facial expression (Especially for a producer type like Raida, who probably doesn't let his real expression show much), which is great for selling that he's being very genuine and even somewhat distraught over what GOA is going through here. Same for how we use his eyes later, both [for removing GOA](https://imgur.com/a/DOBdqMF), and [with the impact of Aqua's words](https://imgur.com/a/ESVvpAO).

[](#justright)

I talked about this a bit last episode with how the Sweet Today and Melt stuff sort of feed back into this arc, but I do rather like how this show just has this rather consistent, gratifying cohesiveness to it. That is, previous ideas are commonly brought back within a new context for extra impact, or subtly brought in only to be nicely expanded on. Yoriko's talk about how Abiko's quick success had essentially gone to her head with no one to pull her back in feels a lot more resonant when we've already experienced that exact pain and its consequences through Kana and Melt (Well, [aside from this just being very funny lol](https://imgur.com/a/kLKnHDR)). Ruby's initial conversation with Frill and Minami about how work-talk usually devolves into thoughts of bragging feels like a little comedic but not very relevant bit at first, but then [Yoriko shares some of her own mixed emotions regarding Abiko](https://imgur.com/a/uDOK9uo), and now it feels a lot more fun that the show had already that put idea into your head earlier y'know?

Anyway, aside from enabling Aqua's message with the tickets to get through, the whole meeting with Yoriko serves to more directly state, and later expand, all the problems last episode had alluded to regarding Abiko. She's socially awkward but intensely passionate about her work, a mix that makes her very hard to approach, made even more difficult by the strain that the weight of her success puts on her. That super problematic "It's either my standard, or incompetence that I need to fix" approach now really proves why it's so bad, because it doesn't just wreck a play, it straight up eats away at her life! At the same time, there's still that sympathy in there for an artist, especially someone who was already burned like Yoriko, in seeing where she's coming from. The larger conflict here, [as nicely conveyed through some physical divide framing](https://imgur.com/a/8YykCz7), is how much ground you give away, and how cooperatively you do that.

Last episode, I mentioned how Abiko didn't really come off as arrogant per se, despite her obviously overly confrontational and aggressive nature in terms of her work, but this episode feels pretty enlightening on that front. [Yoriko alludes to it](https://imgur.com/a/TuNBdQr), and eventually [you get it straight from the horse's mouth](https://imgur.com/a/0Qvd4WN), but rather ironically, that perfectionist passion that makes her so hard to deal with, a big reason why her work is *so* fundamentally important to her, is exactly because it's effectively one of her only outlets for communication with others! She straight up ties her value to it, [and that leads her to be far too assumptive and protective of that position](https://imgur.com/a/Q5olkDn). In a sense, if you don't get the work, you're not getting her. Of course, this is a terrible way to engage with others, since most people *don't* process like that, hence all the frustration on all sides. The only way to get these things across is to have genuine, straightforward communication.

And what better way to get that across than not only to have Yoriko directly communicate it, but to do so with an incredible back-and-forth verbal fight in which neither holds back on the genuine flaws in both of their approaches! Definitely the highlight of the episode, and again, funny though it may seem, it takes real care for someone to go that far, so the show does a great job of selling their relationship here. And while theirs was a far more explosive exchange than usual, the conclusions and emotional honesty it opens up inherently prove the effectiveness of our core theme! Just a fantastically entertaining exchange that ~~speaks~~ yells for itself. Love [the downright ethereal lighting at the end](https://imgur.com/a/Zmvk1RX) as well.

I also feel so much credit has to go to the VA performances! Sakura Ayane's range between really subdued and very emotionally explosive works so well for Abiko, just in general, but especially here, with that crying at the end being such a strong moment. And for Yoriko, I feel I've almost only heard Shizuka Itou as ojou characters before, and that's still felt here, because damn, I love those tones she goes up to here lol. The whole "Oh, I hit the mark huh?!" bit is just incredible. Their performances really do just *make* the scene for me!

[](#listen)

> Do you enjoy plays like Akane, or prefer movies like Aqua?

[Both?](#hikariactually)

I mean, I guess if I were pressed for an answer, cinebrain me absolutely says traditional visual media like movies, but there's a lot to love with theater as well! Much like the show would have it, I think it's best to simply view them independently for their own merits.

(Plus, coming off the Rose of Versailles rewatch certainly showed me how great a mix of the two can look)

> What do you think of Abiko's comment that 90% of creative works are trash?

Not to the same vitriolic extent. Like, yeah, if you were to theoretically evaluate all creative works, I think you'd find there's a larger majority for "bad" relative to "good".

But not only is 90% just a pretty crazy figure, the quality spectrum is also so, sooo much larger and more nuanced than just being either trash or masterpiece.

[](#hardthink)

> This episode heavily featured the new side characters. Did it work for you, or did you feel less invested during scenes that didn't involve the main cast?

Touched on this already, obviously, but just in general, it works for me, even if it could frankly be delivered a decent bit more succinctly and expressively.

**Rewatcher/Manga Reader - Subbed**

* Oh jeez I just can't with yelling and arguments so Subbed tonight

**Questions**

* QOTD 1 - I prefer movies but TV Series is the best for me
* QOTD 2 - I may trash on somethings (Power Gig: Rise of the Six String - It's basically Rock Band 3 but nothing works properly) but saying 90% is such a crazy take and even then I still like some things despite them being "Trash" (Seeing any sort of Power Gig breakthroughs makes me happy and well we are at the point where they are far and wide now since it's more broken things left)

**Rewatcher**

I skipped the last episode thread, so I'll dump some of those thoughts here lol

The two episodes carry a general theme that the show has explored previously with the *Sweet Today* drama, the clash of pure creative work of the artists and the practicalities needed to make it a product and business. And the issues that contribute to this clash - including [the creator struggling to convey their lines of original thought](https://imgchest.com/p/agyvna28w48), [business communication dulling the severity of criticism](https://imgchest.com/p/ne7b6o5zky5), [logistical considerations](https://imgchest.com/p/dl7pnwvm8yo), and the pressure from the people actually funding the thing about [casting, screentime](https://imgchest.com/p/5xy2omdvn4l) and [bottom-lines](https://imgchest.com/p/wl7lwd9jp4x)

I think most of us, as fans of a piece of adapted media can understand the creator's point of view in wanting to preserve the integrity of the characters and the themes of the work, and anyone who has dabbled creatively will invariably side with Abiko, as Yoriko says. Heck, Abiko is coming from both places, [as a fan](https://imgchest.com/p/ej7mer9qbyd) who had an adaptation of the very work that inspired her to start as a mangaka in the first place be absolutely gutted, and then seeing a lot of the same people involved in that production now making a mess of her work. She is passionate about her craft, more than even [money](https://imgchest.com/p/md7ob39od4p) or [sleep](https://imgchest.com/p/na7kkqobq78), more than her [social anxiety](https://imgchest.com/p/ljyqkevooy2)

Which is why the story makes the choice to actually focus on and lift up GOA, diving into the [plight of the rewriter](https://imgchest.com/p/6eyrnzvoe7p), and stressing the need for editors, collaboration and delegation in pushing out a piece of creative work, for artists to be [humble](https://imgchest.com/p/dl7pnwv26yo) and open to criticism, and that for most things in life it is learning how to deal with the people that gets you ahead. The high-tension conversation (or screaming match) between Abiko and Yoriko is much needed for both. For Abiko to vent out her frustrations to a person who would intimately understand her position and hopefully allow her to then step-back and re-analyze the situation. For Yoriko, she also got to [get some recent monkeys off of her back](https://imgchest.com/p/qe4gqkegr7j) and mentor Abiko like she used to. Plus, [spite is a very good fuel](https://imgchest.com/p/agyvna2k948) for missed-deadline productivity

1. I love plays! Movies are great of course, and as Aqua puts it, deliver a tuned, polished experience with lots of scope for subtlety and nuance. But theatre is really the purest form of acting, and good theatre delivers all of the above while being all live, with active scope of improvisation, sometimes active participation of the audience. As Akane says, when you're left with just the people and physical props, you can get some of the most creative methods to put together a show.

2. I think every individual has a specific set of tastes, and with the amount of content available now it can seem like the things that suit your particular tastes and resonate with you on a deeper level are like 10% of the total content available. But one man's trash is another's treasure no?

3. Abiko and Yoriko particularly really won me over this episode with their match. Their [tender scene afterwords](https://imgchest.com/p/wl7lwd9vp4x) is one of my favorites this season. Excellent performance from Ayane Sakura, Abiko's VA. Plus this short arc was really Aka Akasaka's [cry for help](https://imgchest.com/p/9ryd2oxww4k) about mangas and adaptations lol.

Some things to note-

- [Aqua is going out of his way to help others around him](https://imgchest.com/p/qb4zpqdx3yj). Positive development is good, sinking in revenge bad

- [Cool shot - matching Aqua's eyes going white due to the play with the fade-to-white shot](https://imgchest.com/p/lqyeloakx4d)

- [Abiko's stars(?)](https://imgchest.com/p/o24a6o353yl). Show up almost exclusively when she talks about manga

- [Future anime episodes] >. Aqua lets her know the hidden agenda and she takes charge in asking Yoriko. I found it subtle and interesting!<

- [I like how they are now a friend group lol](https://imgchest.com/p/vj4jmj9x248)

- [Abiko's about to ship some more Touki-Tsurugi content](https://imgchest.com/p/9p4nzmnrz4n). Boooooo! [Touki-Saya is cooler!](https://imgchest.com/p/md7ob39md4p)

- [Some really cool shots of the drawing techniques animated](https://imgchest.com/p/5xy2omdkj4l). Also, [cool detail of ink stains on Abiko's hands afterwords](https://imgchest.com/p/6eyrnzvee7p)

And so they're off to watch the play.

That's certainly interesting.

So, this was also written by that guy.

Oh, they're at the mangaka's place?

Oh, an anime adaptation too?

Perhaps it's more important for the manga to have a _good_ ending... Cough Aka Akasaka cough...

What's the saying? 90% of everything is crap.

And now she's busy with the rewriting too she can't even make her deadlines.

Ah. She's _that_ kind of perfectionist.

And she wonders why she can't get anything done...

And so she just crashed out.

And so now they're motivated.

Ah, so he gave her a ticket to see that too.

Questions:

1. Well, I like going to watch movies, they're a great excuse to hang out, and I've been in a few plays, so both?
2. Sturgeon's Law.
3. Definitely helped flesh them out more.

**Rewatcher**

Aqua and Akane bought the tie-in drink but is it just clear soda with jelly cubes? I dont see the appeal. Also Akane going :3 as she talks about what she is passionate in was really cute. While Aqua being a buzz kill when Raida was trying to relax by people watching. /jk

Considering how its clear Yoriko isnt fond of Melt, I wonder how he ended up tagging along. The whole Kana and Akane rivalry along Yoriko giving Melt the cold shoulder was fun to watch. The difference in lifestyle of a monthly serialized mangaka and weekly serialized one is so vast but it does get overshadowed by the whole adaptation critique going on at the same time. Yoriko still had poor sleep habits during the Sweet Today arc though.

Kantoku's words of wisdom about how Akibo sensei would only be receptive if it came from someone she regards mentor certainly hits the mark. Even if Akibo is more successful, a mentor you look up to is an idol in its own way.

I found the screaming match between Yoriko and Akibo to be quite cathartic, they both had feelings bottled up that needed to be let out. Its always nice when anime senpais do actual senpai-ing. I actually enjoyed seeing Akibo's backstory how she started. I previously only regarded her role to push the narrative. But her strong opinions regarding the rewrite stemming from seeing a work close to her get a botched adaptation makes her actions more sympathetic. Akibo watching the last episode of Sweet Today adaptation, while also tying in nicely with that arc, really helps drive home Yoriko's point about having to trust other people for cross-discipline projects no matter how talented she is in her domain.

We also get a glimpse of how Yoriko taught Akibo about not just drawing but also elements of story telling and entertainment. Following on to the theme of mentorship, now that Akibo is a full fledged mangaka, she has come full circle and was expected to take on the role of a mentor training assistants and delegating work. But as an introvert and a perfectionist, it likely is tempting to go "if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself" and Akibo using "being too busy" or "they dont meet my standards" to blow it off. Its an important lesson for even the most anti-social person even if they excel at their field, they one day still need to step into a leadership role to manage projects of a larger scope or end up drowning with no one capable to share the load.

I do wonder, how the industry as a whole will be like if mangakas dont take on assistants. Can what they teach be learnt elsewhere?

**QotD**

1. Movies. Just for accessibility alone to be able to watch anything anytime I want is huge. Then there is the variety where movies having more tools available provide more options
2. Its Sturgeon's Law, I wouldnt be surprised if thats the case. Personally I think anything thats not a "good" can be considered trash since its not like you would recommend/watch a 6 over a 5. And if its not worth watching then isnt it just trash. But I feel even if its trash, there can still be value in it. Just giving form to an idea is an achievement imo. Good ideas can be further refined in another work and the author gains experience and feedback to improve. And also sometimes the things I like *are* trash.
3. I liked it. While Im not a fan of the whole commentary on "troubles of adaptations" thing, I like seeing relationships even for side characters

We got Miyaemon~ back! The New B-Komachi is getting more and more popular ever day. Ruby finally feels safe in her class packed with celebrities.


Aqua didn't expect theater to be this good, since he's an old man inside he was suprised to see new specs of stages nowadays. Though they're not everwhere, at least where i come from it's still 100% traditionally performed yet i think for the past few years i saw as much of stage play as movies, i prefer to see a play than a movie in theatre but that's because even then i don't think i saw enough of plays so i can never predict what comes next (a song, new character, poem, dance, new act, decor change etc; i find them quite engaging), whereas i find myself counting the minutes every time i watch a movie (which is something i'm working on currently by watching films more often).


I love Abiko-sensei and KyoAma Sensei's dynamic, i think this episode was the best one until the play. Before, it was hard to stand to Abiko-sensei's childish behavior but this episode made me understand her better and i realized how similar KyoAma's sensei was to Kana. She always tries to do the right thing despite her feeling overwhelmed and insecure all the time like Kana. [ONK Manga] >!Also, Kana also get jealousy of Ruby later but handles it rather well (i mean, not in an optimal way but she did her best)!<


I disagree with Abiko-sensei on her comment about 90% of creative work is trash (but i actually think her being unreasonable like this is very much in character for her). First of all, popularity does NOT equal to or it's NOT an index for good work. It just means that it sells well. Sales and popularity are depended on many various factors such as advertisment and public morality. General opinon might be harsh if it's not in line with the "values" of modern world and that's completely normal, there's always going to be different interpretations as each and every person perceive things differently. Secondly, we call them "creative work" simly because they're unique ("creative") and made with effort ("work"). Each creator pours love and care into their work, therefore each work has a soul of it's own. We are only human and what we create carry a part from us, turning giving our efforts a shape and then forming the final product within our ideas and comprehension. Sometimes things don't always go this way, the creator loses interest in their work but it doesn't change the fact that it they did everything they could at some point for the very least. There are however works that lack a "soul", works that made without love or care, only exist to make money. This is what i'd call "trash" and i believe it's actually less common, or completely reverse of what Abiko-sensei said, i think its more like 10% of all work. It might come off strong and optimistic but the thing is, i value hard work more than anything.