Frieren: Beyond Journey's End Rewatch Episode 23 Discussion

**First Timer**

A thought I had two days ago but keep forgetting to mention. Everybody uses their flashy specialty spell, and **everybody** runs out of mana. I suspect standard offensive and defensive spells have been optimized to use little mana per use. So even young Fern is never going to run out of mana. More than enough "to defeat mages of this age."

LOL hair magic is seriously creepy, in a Sadako way. Please don't show any more of it.

No reason to not work together. Unless there are some petty revenges.

"Stay out of my way, kid" -- Frieren, probably

Me: Himmel is a true D&D player. Himmel: Immediately demonstrates that he is a true D&D player.

Me: But this is the way for Frieren to find more chests. Frieren: immediately goes looking for ~~chests~~ mimics.

R2! Shut down all the spike walls on the fifth level!

Me: I hear this works on dogs. Fern: Immediately brings up dogs.

Fern already acheived her goal. Now she's aimless.

I've been wondering if Flamme's flower spell would aid Scharf, but it looks like he brings his own petals.

Me: Okay, so, you can win by arranging a rock-paper-scissors match up, with 3 people. The solo adventurers are screwed. Denken: #facepalm *I just said that*

I didn't expect that ending.

edit: Okay, if copy Frieren has Frieren's attitudes they can possibly avoid a fight.

There's something I haven't quite been able to place for a little while now, and I think I've figured it out. Übel's dead eyes and constant bland smile reminds me a lot of Makima.


Also, [Himmel, apparently.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=zViYpS3BIqY)

**Repeat Journeyer**

*Trust no one, not even yourself.*

So we're dungeon crawling for the second test. And everyone lets their pride get the better of them and decide to solo the whole thing. You give my man Denken some dang respect!

Himmel gets me. I'm also a completionist by nature. When I'm playing a game, I'm *always* backtracking in search of hidden loot.

*"Kurai yo~! Kowai yo~!"*

Ladies and gentlemen, let me present one of the greatest mages to ever live.

I bought the figure of Frieren stuck in a mimic, lol. Makes me smile every time I see it on my shelf.

After a relatively relaxing jaunt through the upper floors, we come to the true danger lurking in these depths. Mirrors of everyone who entered.

I like how it's presented as if Übel is trying to pull a fast one on Wirbel, Ehre, and Sharf, before revealing who the actual assailant is.

We also see a bit of Laufen actually fighting, and her blend of martial arts and magic is why her fighting style is my favorite of the mages. (Clone!Laufen sure went down easy with just a bit of teamwork, though.)

But how unfair is it to have *Frieren* be your final boss? That slow reveal with the music building into epic chanting is fantastic. Denken's party gets to see Frieren from the demons' perspective.

(Perhaps Clone!Frieren is weak to fisticuffs? Or just throw a mimic at it, idk)

> 1) How does Sense's hair have any magical properties?

*A Spell to Give Yourself Prehensile Hair*

> 2) Is it normal that the participants working together in order to conquer the dungeon?

It *should* be. But everyone's still carrying grievances from the first test.

> 3) Any ideas why Sense is willing to accompany any exploration parties?

She's already a first-class mage. Plus she needs to proctor the exam.

> 4) Frieren stuck in the chest mimic, are you happy seeing this legendary scene?

It's dark! It's scary!

> 5) Why Frieren has the habit to check ever single chest even if the mimic detector spell exists and stucking there every single time?

99% of mages give up right before they find that legendary grimoire.

> 6) Are there any item to loot here?

Frieren certainly seems happy with her haul.

> 7) What is that thing? Is this the dungeon core?

*The Angry Magic Diamond*

> 8) How complex and clever are the defense mechanisms there?

The various traps are nothing special, but the clones are really novel. Great idea.

**First Timer: Beyond Dubbed’s End**

>I’m a pacifist. I abhor fighting and conflict.

Said with the same energy as fucking Jughead Jones

>I’m weird. I’m a weirdo. I don’t fit in, and I don’t want to fit in.

Ooooooh Flare Corona flashbacks with that hair. Sensei, Flare, y’all should meet.

Übel x Land in the background is sending me. Look at the ship sail.

Horror movie knowledge. The one who goes alone dies first.

Interesting indeed, Sense.

I know nothing about mapping dungeons outside of whatever SAO Abridged said, but mapping seems both smart and time consuming.

Dungeons excite the best of us.

Richter was a prophet.

**No**.

You’ve gotta be shitting me.

Frieren, ignore the mimic. Ignore it.

*Uuuuuuueeeeerrrghaaaaaa* you sense mana because it’s a MIMIC 😭

If it has a 99% accuracy rate, then move on!

If it’s a fucking mimic, I’m opening a window.

Goddammit.

I opened a window. It is so cold.

Leave her there, Fern, she knows what she did.

Sense out here befuddled and flabbergasted.

Man, I miss Disney’s Gargoyles. What an awakening.

That was like straight out of scifi with that laser beam, w a t in the gundam laser canon was that.

Sense has immaculate taste in making her golems look so muscular. *twirls hair* Are you a fellow muscle enthusiast, diva?

…okay, I understand why Frieren was on that ecchi list post now.

Are there people who intentionally seek out mimics for like sex stuff? Is that bestiality? Is this vore? Can mimics consent to vore? Is there a subreddit for this that I can be linked to so I can avoid it?

***Oh my gods, did people go to conventions as mimics?***

Oooh Frieren the Ojousama. She has the drill hair for it!

“Dilettante” is a four dollar word.

Frieren would thrive in Gachiakuta!

Aww, Sense’s smile 🥹

>Scharf, ✨𝓉𝒶𝓀ℯ 𝓂ℯ✨

I have my yuri ship. I have two MF ships. Might as well have a yaoi ship. And why not? Why can’t I ship them? Take him, Scharf, take him.

Oh this was giving ATLA Book 3 in the Fire Lord’s room during the Day of Black Sun, and I love that.

WAAAAAIT.

Can *Land* do this too, copying thing and all?

I wonder how this spell works. How is a Frieren copy their without her present?

***

**First Timer: Beyond Manga’s End**

Ch48

Manga!Sense calls this a dungeon raid, where you need to enter and then reach the innermost depths of the tombs. Anime!Sense says the dungeon must be conquered and thy must also reach the depths.

Manga!Denken suggests team work, a mage ask why. Anime!mage asks if Denken surely isn’t suggesting they help each other.

Manga showed Friren eyeing that stone. It doesn’t seem that Sense was about to step on it.

Manga shows the flashback as deeper in a dungeon, within a corridor. Anime has them in a place that had a sky.

Anime lingers more on Frieren’s full smile.

Anime!Richter added about falling for mimics, I know that’s a diss at Frieren but I can’t prove it cuz how would he even know 😭

Anime shows more of Frieren’s struggle with the mimic.

Ch49 at 12:00 to end.

***

**Spell for Additional Thoughts**

Seeing first Genau’s smile at Frieren’s creativity then Sense’s smile at Fern’s words, I am baffled at what these two are doing. It seems they’re a lot more of the mind of magic being a fun exploration than I thought. So why were there exams so harsh? Or are they, too, wanting to weed out people who would abuse their privilege?

Frieren deserves that 0.7 ecchi score.

How did dungeons happen in the first place? And why?

It’s interesting we didn’t see Übel and Land’s journey, and that makes me nervous. The whole copying business really makes me interested in Land. Is his spellwork a derivative of this copying spell? Is this ***also*** demon magic refurbished for magery?

It’s so exhausting building all these ships. I will even build a poly ship for Ehre, Wirbel, and Scharf (Wirbel is deliberately in the middle).

***

**QotD**

1. If she’s anything like Flare, a dragon gave her that power. But if her desired spell was hair sentience, then I am a lot less of a creative person than I thought.
2. Probably not.
3. To see their creativity and passion for magic.
4. No. I need answers. Is this vore? Is this a kink? Are there kink parties where people get into mimics? Do mimics agree to this? Can mimics be trained to gently put people in their mouths and spit them out?
5. Because every genius is eccentric, and this is her quirk: grimoires > safety.
6.
7. They’re scary.

**Rewatch: Blu-Ray Version**

With the 2nd exam starting, the goal is dungeon crawling. Which, in a sense, is more practical than catching Stilles in the first portion of the exam. Giving the examinees an opportunity to flee if their life is in danger is nice to have. Though the way she says she is a pacifist is a bit odd.

Of course we see the mages going about in their predetermined groups. While in theory Denken's point of them working together should be the ideal approach. The problem is that humans can be complicated. Can you trust your fellow mages? And those with trust issues no doubt would have issues working with unfamiliar people. Wirbel's point is how can you trust someone you barely know or interacted with? It's a case of everyone not being wrong for the approach they chose.

Speaking of dungeon crawling, it's cool to learn what Himmel's approach would be. It's essentially a completionist mindset. For Himmel it was simply about enjoying the adventure in its purest form. Tackling the dungeon is essentially an adventure, and what is the rush in getting to the end? Of course Himmel knows how to incentivize Frieren to follow that approach.

It's funny that Sense says she can't understand Fern because she is so talented at such a young age, but she has no passion. In a sense it makes sense because this adventure is more so Frieren's adventure to reunite and talk to Himmel. For Fern, though, she gets great joy in seeing the passion that Frieren displays, like with the various treasures, and that is enough for her.

So this dungeon can copy the examinees, and it is very detailed to the bone. The only difference is the outward experience, and they don't seem to talk. This is the proof that it was a good idea to not go solo because if you are facing a perfect clone, it will cause trouble. Also, these clones most likely won't have doubt, unlike humans, so if you go up against your clone alone, you will most likely lose.

While it shouldn't be a surprise that Frieren has her own clone too. But the fact that the final boss of this dungeon, in a way, is Frieren makes this exam much more daunting than the first because no one had to fight Frieren herself in the first stage of the exam.

This episode adapted chapters 48 & 49. Animation looks to be back on track after it was a bit shaky in a few episodes in the 1st stage exam. Also, note the whole fight sequence in Denken's group when Laufen's clone appears is anime original.

**Rewatcher (Sub)**

Now we reach the second stage of the Mage Exam arc, or as I think of it, Frieren: The Dungeon Crawler. And honestly, this is *easily* my favorite part of the Exam arc. With this episode, we get to see how each individual (or group) approach the challenge when they're given freedom to choose. Some being suspicious and wanting to go at it alone, while others like Denken wanting to team up with as many people as possible.

Of course it makes sense for Frieren to team up with Fern, so they can hopefully maximize their chances of passing together. And it was fun seeing Frieren's joy at discovering all the little magical items along the way. And lol, her knowingly putting herself at risk of the Mimic at the very small chance that she'd get a grimoire. Love the exasperated reaction from Fern and Sense.

Then we have Denken's team, who gets the most serious action in this episode. Nice to see some traditional traps here, and seeing how they work around them. But of course the main threat here being first the gargoyles and then the duplicates of everyone, which was interesting. Some really good action there. Poor Lange, being trapped in that spiked room so she has to use her Golem. And man, since these duplicates have the same skills as the real people, fighting Frieren will be the ultimate test for these people, lol.

**Rewatcher**

awww, Frieren learned the joys of dungeoning thanks to his husband.

Ton you dingus, nice not knowing you!


1) How does Sense's hair have any magical properties?

* they move with vectors, like Nana's limbs in Elfen Lied


2) Is it normal that the participants working together in order to conquer the dungeon?

* Going in a group makes it easier, only fools would go alone.


3) Any ideas why Sense is willing to accompany any exploration parties?

* My headcanon is she didn't plan to join any party but he saw a very promising candidate and she joined.

4) Frieren stuck in the chest mimic, are you happy seeing this legendary scene?

* Yes! I'll buy it if I find the figure for cheap and manage to make some room

5) Why Frieren has the habit to check ever single chest even if the mimic detector spell exists and stucking there every single time?

* She probably found a legendary grimoire once.

6) Are there any item to loot here?

* those colored medals?

7) What is that thing? Is this the dungeon core?

* It's a prototype version of the things that appear on top of your sim in The Sims games

8) How complex and clever are the defense mechanisms there?

* That ceiling crusher looked brutal.

Rewatcher, first time dub watcher

So yeah, for y’all first timers… come to your own conclusions about what a Frieren clone means for our test takers here. I will hold off on my words until after this portion of the exam concludes

It’s wild to hear the fear in Denkens voice. Feels a lot clearer in the dub than the sub from what I remember

Extremely excited for next episode or two since I know what’s coming

**Rewatcher (Dub)**

* Man, if you weren’t in love with Frieren before this episode, then you’ll definitely be entranced by her in this one. She’s so adorable and lovable it hurts.
* The moment that Sense and Fern had together while Frieren was looking through her treasure was so lovely, and it reminded me of her scene with Eisen on the cart when Frieren was sleeping on Fern’s lap. I just wish we’d get more of this side of Fern instead of her usual childish antics.

**Rewatcher**

* How does Sense's hair have any magical properties?

I assumed her hair was through whatever spell she gained through her gift

* Is it normal that the participants working together in order to conquer the dungeon?

Denken is right, the group would be a better set than indivuals, but mages seem to be plagued with issues of arrogance (which makes sense really)

* Any ideas why Sense is willing to accompany any exploration parties?

Once I knew the dungeon's feature, which Sense would already have known, to make the task more challenging.

* Frieren stuck in the chest mimic, are you happy seeing this legendary scene?

Ehh. I appreciate callback gags like it, but the Dungeon episode feels weirdly imbalanced in tone, and the gag doesnt really help.

* Why Frieren has the habit to check ever single chest even if the mimic detector spell exists and stucking there every single time?

Love of the game, baby

* Are there any item to loot here?

If the dungeon hasnt been defeated/looted before, almost assuredly there will be something. Both from in story and out, there kinda has to be.

* What is that thing? Is this the dungeon core?

Magic extending for long periods seems to be focused in or through specific things, like Flamme's trees. That thing looks weird, but I assume its the fuel powering the spells running the dungeon.

* How complex and clever are the defense mechanisms there?

As clever as the DM.

Rewatcher

So the next test is dungeon crawling. And a test that would go better with everyone working together probably wouldn't have so many issues if it wasn't after the turning everyone against each other test. Well at least the golems work. And we learn that Frieren falls for mimics because she is a gacha addict, it is hilarious watching Sense being utterly shocked that the mage who was in The Hero's Party and is the scourge of demons will fall for mimics. Also figured Frieren was going to run into one after Richter and Denken were talking about how only an idiot would fall for a mimic. And so the Dungeon throws its biggest trick which is magic clones. I respect Denken for admitting its brown pants time when faced with a Frieren clone.

**Rewatcher**

> 5) Why Frieren has the habit to check ever single chest even if the mimic detector spell exists and stucking there every single time?

I think most adventurers would just *die* when they get caught by a mimic. They are the main diet of mimics after al. Frieren just has the luxury of having lots of defenses on her that she could treat it as a minor inconvenience. If you don't have much consequences, it doesn't hurt to roll the 1% chance dice.

**3rd Ranked Rewatcher**

Rough day, notes might be short for a bit.

We're now finally onto the second exam, and it seems relatively straight-forward so far, everyone has to make it to the final level of this unexplored dungeon, and near the end of the episode, we finally learn the (likely) reason as to why this particular dungeon hasn't been fully explored yet (those clones seem brutal!).

One of the things that I love is that a lot of our mages, at least at first, stick in the same groups as they were assigned to from the first exam. It really hits home that, with the exception of Frieren/Fern and Kanna/Lawine, mages are primarily solitary and don't really have many connections with each other, so those connections made in the first exam are the biggest foundation a lot of them have to work with.

My next point is related to the first, and that's about most of the mages declining to team up and work together like Denken was hoping for. Again, we're seeing the results of a lot of solitary mage work here. If you're used to doing stuff on your own, it's a lot more palatable to work with maybe 1-2 other people that you know decently, but that's a big differences from the large group dynamics that would be in play if everyone worked together like Denken's plan.

Makes me kind of think of myself in some ways. On one hand, personally, I do think Denken's plan is the best that everyone would have the highest chance for success if they all teamed up and worked together.

On the other hand... boy do I hate group projects.

In the end, only a few stuck around for Denken's group experiment, with most mages going into the labyrinth in smaller groups, some alone. Like Sense, I probably would have chosen to glom onto Frieren's group if I had the choice. After all, I too like to fully explore every floor of the dungeon before moving on, just like JRPGs taught me.

1) We'll be learning about that later, so stay tuned!

2) I talked about this mostly above, but I think it makes sense the way most people acted.

3) Well, it does seem like that would be the simplest way to tell who makes it to the bottom and who doesn't.

4) Frieren in the mimic is iconic, it is true.

5) Well, when you live for over 1000 years, you have a lot of opportunities to see the 99% thing fail in favour of the 1%, and if that 1% is a chance at a rare grimoire and the only real downside is a day of weird hair, hell, I'd dive into the mimics too. It's like if you had a 1% chance to gain a billion dollars but a 99% to have someone slap your hand instead. Sure, it's not exactly pleasant to have your hand slapped, but that 1% chance at a billion dollars is probably worth some minor discomfort, especially if you run into the opportunity somewhat frequently.

6) Seems like quite a few! Frieren is in her collecting element.

7) We'll find out!

8) It does seem like there are lots of different layers and puzzles in addition to the clones, so pretty interesting.

### Second-time watcher and your host (subs),

Here comes the second test of the exam. To explore a dungeon from the Unified Empire era. It is quite simple, as the only thing to do is to reach the dungeon core. Whatever problems should happen, an emergency golem could be summoned which protects from any danger while leaving, but means elimination. Chest mimics, trap rooms, gargoyles, dead ends, these are the lesser concerns here.

But it is easy on paper, because the dungeon is full of dangers, traps, mazes and any unwanted things first. Why for real? Because the real danger is the adventureres themselves. Because the dungeon core created very perfect copies/clones, which fights like the original. These are the true final boss here.

1) How does Sense's hair have any magical properties?

Who knows? Maybe she is born with that.

>2) Is it normal that the participants working together in order to conquer the dungeon?

Better than as a lone wolf. Already estabilished cooperations from before are better.

> 3) Any ideas why Sense is willing to accompany any exploration parties?

To observe the dungeon on her own as well and be an impartial participant.

> 4) Frieren stuck in the chest mimic, are you happy seeing this legendary scene?

Yes.

> 5) Why Frieren has the habit to check ever single chest even if the mimic detector spell exists and stucking there every single time?

Must be the treasures alluring her.

> 6) Are there any item to loot here?

Maybe there are which could be worth to keep or sell.

> 7) What is that thing? Is this the dungeon core?

I think so.

> 8) How complex and clever are the defense mechanisms there?

That is a dungeon from the older eras, so the creators knew complex things.

**First-timer, subbed**

This was a surprisingly funny and warm episode for one where everyone is going into a dangerous dungeon from which no one has returned.

Frieren was a hoot when falling for a mimic for god knows how manyeth time. She is so cute when she's confident of something we know is not true.

And Fern talking to Sense about why she continues to search for magic and how it's all so she can keep seeing Frieren smile, which in turn makes her happy, was just so sweet. It do be like that sometimes.

I think I like Frieren best when our main characters are together. They work so well together and have such great chemistry - be it for comedy or for more serious stuff. Splitting them up is a mistake.

The rest of the episode was interesting enough but it was more or less just a set up for the face off against these mud clone things. I wonder if Denken's group will defeat the Frieren copy or if she herself (or perhaps Fern?) will have to be the one to do it.