[Rewatch] Jigokuraku • Hell's Paradise Episode 5 Discussion

**Hell’s Rewatch Host, subbed**

[Welcome back, everyone!](#michaelwink)

[Here were my original reactions to episode 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/132yrxh/jigokuraku_hells_paradise_episode_5_discussion/ji7772d/), if anyone wants to read those.

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- [Bedhead Sagiri, of sorts.](https://i.imgur.com/QhYAIZs.png) [](#seasonaltired)

- [Nice to see Gabimaru isn’t *fully* working with Yuzuriha.](https://i.imgur.com/64YjyU6.png)

- [Yuzuriha is so crass.](https://i.imgur.com/Ejx86PV.png) [](#ookii)

- [That is one *terrifying* face you’ve got there, Gabimaru.](https://i.imgur.com/FBzVrb8.png) [](#spooked)

- [I mean, Genji kinda has a point considering how Yuzuriha’s mostly just been struggling big time compared to the others](https://i.imgur.com/cZC4Swu.png), but I wish it didn’t have to be so baked in sexism. [](#hardthink)

- [Oh man, I can *really* hear the Subaru in Tenza’s voice](https://i.imgur.com/ElPulq7.png) rewatching this after having gotten into Re:Zero properly. [](#ptsd)

- [That’s a whole lot of shipwrecks…](https://i.imgur.com/oGiSCte.png) [](#emiliaohdear)

- [Poor Nurugai…](https://i.imgur.com/dHsrQ3C.png) [](#therethere)

- [So much for Kisho.](https://i.imgur.com/vBwlCLB.png) [](#toradorasalute)

- [Oh Tenza, you lovable dumbass.](https://i.imgur.com/q83Qd1t.png) [](#kotohoops)

- [Well, they’re beaten up, but they survived!](https://i.imgur.com/5Kwvj8f.png) [](#chiochanvictory)

- [His reaction to seeing Nurugai is actually a girl is really funny.](https://i.imgur.com/7CpFWWh.png) [](#azusalaugh)

- [Nice way of throwing Genji’s words back at him.](https://i.imgur.com/VhpTqAP.png) [](#mugistronk)

- [Welllllllp.](https://i.imgur.com/OoY06Ur.png) [](#crazedlaugh)

**Rewatcher**

Pretty clever title for this episode, summarizing all the subplots and themes in a single duality.

First it's a little cheeky foreshadowing to Tenza's charge, Nurugai, actually being a woman. Tenza is a really kind guy. While the other Yamada Asaemon, even Sagiri, searched for strong prisoners who could complete the job, he immediately searched for a prisoner who deserved to live.

While I mentioned yesterday that Tamiya feels a bit out of place in the cast of prisoners considering he is simply a battle maniac and the crime that landed him here was "just" destruction of property, Nurugai is really the one who's had it the most unjust. Her only crime being living peacefully in the mountains outside Shogunate rule.

The Sanka were a group of nomadic people who are believed to have once existed in Japan, says Wikipedia. So that means they are not very well documented. Some people thought of them as having a fundamental propensity for criminal acts primarily regarding theft. One researcher countered this by saying the Sanka simply had "a different conception of property".

I find it interesting how Nurugai mentioned that Tenza, the samurai, was dumb because, among other things, he kept rowing against the current at the start in their boat. Aligning yourself with the flow of the universe so as to not frustrate and damage yourself with impossible tasks is one of the most fundamental principles of Taoism. She keeps pointing out weird things that the samurai are stupid for fixating themselves on. As the Sanka lived in nature, this could be a highlight to the artificiality of the city samurai's way of life and laws, which are not aligned with nature and cause them unnecessary suffering.

This has been a theme already, like how Sagiri and Gabimaru almost killed each other because of paranoia or excessive rule following and against their fundamental instinct.

The second and third elements the episode title refers to are regarding Sagiri and Genji's conflict with each other, as well as Sagiri's inner conflict of dual identities that seem increasingly antagonic as time passes.

Now, Eizen I could give the befit of the doubt. He seemed more concerned that Sagiri was forcing herself to do something that was beyond her current abilities and only remarked on her alternatives as a woman as an opportunity to be away from the killing. Not that we'll get any specification from him as he got turned into kraken salad (Edit: Actually realized later the kraken salad is Kisho lol). But Genji here is a full on misogynist, believing not only that Sagiri currently lacks the temple for this mission despite remarkable technical skill (for which he could have an honest point considering her performance thus far), but that she will _never_ achieve it _because_ she is a woman.

That the guy is a known skirt chaser only makes it worse. He probably believes he can handle Yuzuriha just fine because at the end of the day she is a woman, even as he watched her turn another man into her personal lab rat before his very eyes. What a hypocrite. Jung said "what you deny submits you" and that certainly seems applicable to Genji.

In any case this does strike at Sagiri's insecurities which are very swollen at the moment because whichever way she takes the world seems intent to make her eternally uncomfortable with her position and by this point she's beginning to internalize it.

It's nice that she did get some recognition from other people. Senta is just very logical and realizes that _anyone_ would be in their right mind to leave the island lol. Even so he does make the observation that the fact that almost no one has managed to return does mean they themselves are almost surely doomed...

It's nice of Gabimaru to say Sagiri is very strong, maybe even more than him, but I'm afraid considering current circumstances you just turned my GOAT into Potential Woman™ 😔

Ganbare Sagiri! Beat the allegations!

This discussion will have to wait though as while watching out for all the local grotesqueries they forgot about the other prisoners and got jumped by Rokurōta who took out a chunk of Genji's guts. Yeah I... I don't think that's survivable if they don't find the Elixir of Life right this instant.

The kikatsugan that Gabimaru made is a _probably_ historical kind of Shinobi food ration to stave off hunger. [Here's a pretty interesting video on it.](https://youtu.be/ZVhxaJZG37I?si=a2LJcxX7yqHEwfur) You can really tell by the guy's reaction why Yuzuriha was bummed out lol. Kinda wish we could've gotten a scene of the samurai reacting to eating it, just for amusement's sake. The original recipe states it should take three years to make, probably more for conservation's sake, so Gabimaru is making a more expedient version.

Rewatcher

Dub

So...dub Yuzu is a straight up a downgrade. We learn a bit here but not actually that much, all things considered. The heretical nature of the island is obvious, though the statue sex is just fucking weird under whichever faith you operate under. Nurugai is likely a Hokkaidan due to being from the mountains and from an unsettled village. The issue of the currents is one you will find in legends but not really reality. I can't explain the kraken. Gabimaru making ninja food is kind of funny.

QotD: 1 He was being era appropriate sexist. Sagiri, sadly, would valued far more for her ability to produce Yamada heirs than anything that was truly hers.

2 Vaguely in the sub, the dub performer actually splits the difference better

**First timer actually rooting for mountain ~~boy~~ girl to succeed, French Subs**

*On today's episode:* Some weird looking tentacles, Sagiri won't be restrained by sexist preconceptions on how to live her life and a giant that is surprisingly sneaky.

Heh, I knew I should have made a ''Moutain boy is actually a girl'' theory when I had the chance. To my defense, we didn't saw her (and her executioner) for two episodes. So I assumed they were dead.

Although I like the dynamic of that duo's relationship, I still find their arc to be quite rushed compared to Gabimaru and Sagiri. Sure, they are the main characters and as such have automatically more screentime, but I would have liked more development for mountain girl, how she deal with the burden to be the cause of her village slaughter for exemple. Why not having a mmental breakdown in the middle of a monster assault, but do have some build-up before !

Same goes for her executioner as well, why he took pity on her and tried to extract her from the island. Is it because he disaprroves the trumpist* way of dealing with ethnic minorities ? Is it because of personal ideals of not letting children be treated as criminals ? Was it saved by mountain people and wanted to repay their kindness ?

I want to know ! [](#protest)

Meanwhile, the exposition scene done as an intel exchange that crystalize the distrusts among criminals and executioners was neat, honestly. While Sagiri was still portrayed as the weak link of the group.

Be it for her not considered for any useful task when she sleeps, the way she is mocked for her embarassment about the demons genitals or just the plain sexist discourse about her having to leave the island (and the path she chose for herself) so she can be a good (submissive) wife and mother. I guess the author wanted to have a feminist message in his story with Sagiri as the spokeperson.

I mean, the other female character either use their charms to their advantage to manipulate men or be androgynous enough so they aren't bothered by the patriarchal nature of society. Only Sagiri is shown walking a path that considered unfit for a women by men in a position of authority.

In that regard, her confrontation with Genji was pretty powerful. She may respect her sempais, she proved she could watch after herself. Too bad the giant had to rob us a proper closure on their relationship.

*Guess I won't be able to set foot on US soil for a while [](#cantbehelped)

**Questions of the Day:**

>1) How do you feel about Genji repeatedly telling Sagiri to leave the island? Did he have a point, or was he just being sexist?

I could have a point if he said something like "Go home and don't return on the field before you're a proper samurai". Him saying "Go home and be a good housewife like you're supposed to be" reeks of sexism (that may have been the norm in Japan during that century).

>2) Were you expecting Nurugai-kun to actually be Nurugai-chan?

Well, she kinda have an androgynous look, so I had my doubts.

**First Timer**

**QotD:**

1. Island is like a Prison. There’s no leaving it. Also the sexism is well pronounced for a few episodes already.

2. Haha No and Yes. At first I was like cool Nurugai is a chill girl when I noticed her in episode 2. Today I got suprised when they used -kun honorifics with her and just thought that I did mistake and settled at Nurugai being a boy. Then I realized that I was right, and the show just tried to gaslight me.

**First-timer, subbed**

As soon as this Genki-dono fellow started spouting that patriarchal nonsense, I went dude, do you know what happened to the last person who did that to Sagiri? And sure enough, he goes the way of Asaemon Shirogane by the end. Good. I like the feminist themes here. Sagiri wanting to just be recognised as a warrior but constantly getting judged by her gender is very relatable.

And my profound apologies for judging her harshly myself when she fainted in the last episode. Didn't realise it was because she got poisoned by some insect scales. Glad she's okay and back in action though.
Liked her scene with Gabimaru a lot. And Gabi himself too. He's such a good lad and I really hope he makes it back to his wife.

It was interesting to see that Kunoichi's original Asaemon caught on to Saigiri and Gabi's unique relationship and realised she's key to keeping him in line. It was nice to see him openly admitting that even though it might be better for her personally to leave, he'd feel better with her around. A good change from the other Asaemon's toxic masculinity we've seen so far.

But speaking of good Asaemon, I'm already in love with Nurugai and her Golden Retriever Asaemon. I'm fully invested in their fate after just this one short episode. Please let them be okay. Nurugai's backstory went to my heart. Carrying all that guilt around as a child for what was really an innocent mistake (or more like getting manipulated by evil bastards into betraying your own)... :((

And her Asaemon (Tenza - just looked up his name) being such a nice person even if a bit stupid and wanting to do the right thing and save this innocent child. My heart! Seriously, please be okay till the end.

**First Timer in Hell’s Dubbed Paradise**

Gabi is a short king 👑

Oh it’s like an everything-but-the-kitchen-sink dish.

I’m gonna love smarty Asaemon.

Oh. Welp. I’m glad the statues are enjoying their sex.

One day, I will find a female character in anime who isn’t a pervert or antagonist or stoic, and she can say “dicks” and “genitalia” without any hangups.

Senta is falling, Genji Is in the arms of some big ass motherfucker, and Sagiri is alone. Foreshadowing?

I hope that’s not it either, I don’t need another Angel Beats traumatization.

Genji 🤏🏾

Welp.

Y’know, I do like tentacles, but not like this.

I am confused how Mr Naruto is an Asaemon.

Fuck those samurai.

Congratulations, she’s a girl 🎉💃🏾

Okay, I ship it now.

Sagiri is my equality queen 🫶🏾

If this island isn’t for woman and children, then why are *you* here, manchild, I can play this game too boo 😃

Oh *noooooo* the sexist finna die, don’t tread on him now 😩

***

**Criminal’s Additional Thoughts**

The Naruto Asaemon and our androgynous/masc lady criminal will be my second ship of the season.

So Nurugai was sentenced for execution for not taking the genocide of her indigenous people lying down. That, unfortunately, tracks. I can understand her survivor’s guilt spiraling into wanting to die. I hope others are out there, hiding. I do like my new ship though. I have a weakness for maidenly himbos.

I wish he had more muscles though. I am unimpressed at his biceps. He should take off his pants, so I can see this thigh game.

What a shit situation Sagiri is in. How the fuck is she even supposed to leave? Who died and made Genji leader?

***

**QotD**

1. He’s a spicy sexist.
2. Nope! Even when her figure was commented of being girlish, I thought “Maybe femboy?”. In my defense, I am currently BL-pilled with my most recent reads having femme MCs.

### Second-time rewatcher, subs

Sagiri lost consciousness not due to dangerous mist, but rather spores and some kind of nasty things spread from these butterflies. Atleast there edible and not harmful materials to eat here.

Why is this island so strange? Maybe the humans who "died" here basically reborn (or perhaps better to say, recycled) as these strange plants. As for these giant creatures, they are supposed to be goids, but in reality, but they are mockery of it. They are fake gods, who are not even godly at all. They evolved to a point where some of vital organs are became "unnecessary" in order to achieve this kind of immortality.

Genji still have doubts in Sagiri regarding it was the right idea to become an Asaemon and undertaking this journey. But her answer, what she is does is right, and there is no need to question this. She is willing to break the status quo and do an impactful change into this strict society what the Edo era is. But if she was born in a modern era where male and female are truly considered equal, then she wouldn't be stigmatized like now.

Like I said many times, the island has a will of its own. It does not like one thing, to escape this place, and return to "reality". The only thing it wannts to once they arrive here, never return back, probably being the "afterlife" on Earth. That's why many shipwrecks there at one single place. But the boat from earlier is different, as it was allowed to return as a message. Even sea monsters are also living there and they are the responsible for those shipwrecks. So once in Shinsenkyo, it is futile to leave it.

Ands we are got introduced to another batch of convict-executioner duo. The convict is Nurugai, a member of the Sanka people, who lived in a tribal society deep within the woods and the hills and adhered to their indigenous traditions whic was seen as rebellious act. I don't know whether they were real or fictional but they are quite similar to the Ainu or the Emishi (which is many centuries past, but mentioned here). Nurugai is a girl, but looking almost like a young boy, and also flat-chested. What is her crime: invited one offical to her village, then reported to this to the authorities, then everybody was killed here other than her. As the only one standing, she was named the ringleader for this rebellion and sentenced to death. His executioner Tenza, is firmly convinced she is innocent and believes every single word of her. Just like the Chobei-Toma situation, the executioner is actually is fighting for the sake of the assigned convict, willingly accepted the risk of this expedition, thus they are on the same side.

And Rokurota is still on his rampage, Eizen first, now Genji.

> 1) How do you feel about Genji repeatedly telling Sagiri to leave the island? Did he have a point, or was he just being sexist?

He is just a someone who cannot accept why is there a woman in their ranks. And also he cannot be convinced Sagiri can be a good executioner as well.

> 2) Were you expecting Nurugai-kun to actually be Nurugai-chan?

Sometimes it takes a man to be best girl or reverse.

**Rewatcher (Dub)**

A bit of a slower pace this time, as we see everyone come to terms with their new situations. The whole thing with Genji trying to get Sagiri to leave to "fulfill her duty as a woman" was a bit frustrating. I will say that while part of it is definitely partly the widely held views of the time, but it's also partly just him trying to reach for *any* "reasonable" argument in order to protect someone he cares about on some level. Not to say I agree with his reasoning either way. I do like Sagiri's scene with ~~Sagiri~~ Senta, as he admits she's probably better off leaving, but it would be better for his sake if she stayed.

The Nurugai part was the most exciting part of of the episode, as we see her and Tenza dealing with the sea creature. I do think there were better action scenes in earlier episodes, but it is fun in its own way. And I will say, I think I remember just believing Nurugai was a girl initially, and wondering about the assumption that she was a guy.

First Timer - Subbed

They spend, like, half the time being realistic about the situation and the other half being unnecessarily misogynistic about it instead.

So finally some sensible actions, finding a defensible area, regrouping, and talking about the situation. Not all the flora is weird, apparently, and there's some stuff that can be made... somewhat edible... probably. Frankly, I still wouldn't trust any of the flora here even if it *looks* normal but they bravely have 0 rations to survive even one day so whatever. Worst. Expedition. Ever. More hints that the elixir of life is tied to Gabimaru's village chief as well. They still have 0 plan other than "meander around and hope they get lucky" though so... That's a problem.

The whole "this is a woman's role" thing here feels so forced though. It's also the worst possible argument to try to make for no good reason. Just claim that they've decided that this is sufficient and important enough information to send back to the shogunate, and oh wouldn't you know it, you're the lowest ranking member here, I'm putting you in charge of this task. Or even try buttering her up, say that she's the best navigator they have and she'd have the best odds of making it back solo. This "woman's role" thing in a world where physical endurance and strength clearly doesn't mirror the real world (see the kunoichi for an example of that...) just doesn't make sense. Bleh. Stupid argument here, could've been handled in much better ways, but they chose sexism cuz drama.

Turns out that leaving the island won't be as easy as it seems though, as we go back to another duo. I... how did Nurugai even survive to get picked as one of the 10? She has no special combat ability that I can see, did she just get lucky and not die during the free-for-all? Anyways, first "criminal" that's more of a political prisoner than a person with a high body count. Maybe lead with that when explaining that Sagari had trouble executing people back in episode 2? Not having the stomach to execute people like Nurugai vs arsonists and mass murderers is a *very* different thing.

Seems like the island both wants to kill them and keep them all here, what with the weird currents. At least these two have their heads on their shoulders and want to find a potential way off the island if they can get the elixir of life in the first place. I like the large kraken-like tentacles, reminds me a bit of the Watcher in the Water from LOTR, wouldn't be surprised if it's the direct inspiration. Or Japan's... love... for tentacles, I guess that could be an inspiration though *thankfully* we're not going that direction at all.

Anyways. Bro. How do you not know the sex of the prisoner you're in charge of?! Did she never have to empty her bladder while on the ship on the journey here? Was that not in the records? You seem to understand enough of her records to know that she was innocent of any real wrongdoing, but not enough to know that she was a girl and not a guy? Eh. Whatever.

1) I think there's a very good, logical, and logistical point to have *someone* go back to the mainland with the little information they have: giant monsters, death bugs, centipedes aren't that important, so on so forth. His argument *sucked.* Again, just do the typical saving face thing and claim that he's a bad sailor and thinks that Sagiri would have the best chance of making it back of the three of them. Being antagonistic in such a stupid fashion is so unnecessary.

2) No, not really, but I also don't really see how much of a difference it makes unless we're gonna spend a lot more time with those two and they're not just gonna get murked.

Sorry just a question: “That one samurai who bloomed, he made it back” - Tenza. Is he talking about Kisho? if so what does he mean i thought kisho is dead?