[Rewatch] Jigokuraku • Hell's Paradise Episode 11 Discussion

**Hell’s Rewatch Host, subbed**

[Welcome back, everyone!](#michaelwink)

If anyone’s wondering why today’s wallpaper is arranged like that, basically I found [some merch](https://i.imgur.com/4Hrgw1R.png) on Google while looking for the character visuals I used as my base images, thought “Oh that’s a neat idea”, and then lined up the finished art to the proportions of that merch. [](#yuishrug)

[Here were my original reactions to episode 11](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/14btz67/jigokuraku_hells_paradise_episode_11_discussion/jooqifk/), if anyone wants to read those.

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- [Chobei isn’t done yet](https://i.imgur.com/PzrRZEW.png), [but…](https://i.imgur.com/RJaCo7a.png) [](#emiliaohdear)

- [I reiterate what I said yesterday, Chobei is insane and I have to respect him for it.](https://i.imgur.com/MKB1ezW.png)

- [Oh boy, Chobei can see tao now…](https://i.imgur.com/YvYm86W.png)

- [Fuchi’s in his element.](https://i.imgur.com/pV7F9Q8.png) [](#kukuku2)

- [lol](https://i.imgur.com/VrKRGOv.png) [](#azusalaugh)

- [Mei is a lot older than she looks…](https://i.imgur.com/M3FXpRG.png)

- [Gabimaru saw Mei crying again](https://i.imgur.com/6b1mdro.png) and [immediately folded.](https://i.imgur.com/fVuMmXG.png) [](#kukuku)

- [Ergh, that they want Mei for this…](https://i.imgur.com/cKWmpHY.png) [](#gabdisgust)

- [How cruel…](https://i.imgur.com/88pw4Qc.png) [](#sadholo)

- [Hooboy, Gabimaru is *pissed*.](https://i.imgur.com/u5fBaS6.png) [](#SPORTS)

- [“Chibimaru”](https://i.imgur.com/sAptBgI.png) [](#trololol)

- [Well see, Fuchi, you’re talking to a battle shounen MC.](https://i.imgur.com/TAgLbwq.png) [](#sassyimouto)

- So Gabimaru figured out tao while [Sagiri’s group made it to Horai.](https://i.imgur.com/uDpU3VH.png)

**Rewatcher**

Yeah this show is not shy with the gore. If Chōbei had meant to die last episode, _we would've known_. Little design flaw with the pits there, if you just throw half dead people into the Tan production well, they might get the Tan before you. Although it certainly doesn't seem like it was properly integrated as Chōbei gets marked wherever he regenerates. Tōma will of course _never_ really voice his doubts about his God and I'm thinking this will bite them in the ass later. For now though Chōbei has gotten a pretty significant power boost, probably below only the Tensen themselves for now. Interesting that it doesn't heal what scars he had before. Is it simply impossible or does it have to do with self image?

Meanwhile Gabimaru & co try to figure out Tao with the help of some convenient mobs. Anyone from the expedition still alive is clearly well above the level of the Soshin on their own.

One of the Doshi conveniently explains a little bit more of what's going on. Obviously this is inline with Battle Shounen tropes but I like that you could also read it as their beliefs showing. These guys are applying Tao not just philosophically but like a religion. Thats why they explain their goal to use humans for Tan as the Tensen instructed or their training in search of growing their Tao as if they expect our protagonists to understand and agree that this makes sense and it must be done. And when they don't they go "argh pathetic and lowly humans can't even see divine purpose when it's staring them in the face".

So about the methods of cultivating Tao, doin, taisoku, shuitsu, shuten, I couldn't really find anything, but we can assume to be methods of meditation or exercise. Maybe even alchemy? Apparently ancient Chinese Taoists were big on that, which is how they came across black powder for example. The last one though... Yeah I found something about Taoist sexual practices. Just as the Doshi explains, this is based on a gender fundamentalist interpretation of Yin-Yang principles by which a woman has Yin energy and a man has Yang energy. Because _contraria sunt complementa_, man and woman must complete each other to reach greater energetic heights which would carry such benefits as health and happiness.

Derived from this, several specific practices were written up and passed down and it's not consistent but it's consistently bizarre. Some believed sexual fluids were especially dense in energy and sought to conserve them even in sex, assuming for example that if the man didn't ejaculate then the semen would be reabsorbed into the brain through the stem. Later Taoist practices inline with this taught that the man should seek to make the woman come without doing it himself, so as to complement his own energy with her's without loosing his'. Other Taoists viewed this as a corruption on the original, more balanced intent, which actually did see women's status outside of sexual practices, in society and culture, elevated in early eras. When Confucianism came into vogue, Chinese culture went the other extreme and decreed the topic taboo. This staid in place until actually pretty recently in the early XIX century, so you can see the effects even today.

Going back to Taoist sexual practices... there was also as you probably already fear, discussion on the optimal _age_ of female partners. Which yes, went the direction you're thinking so I'm going to leave it at that. Gabi, please get Mei away from these degenerates.

Yeah this story is flirting with dangerous territory because Taoism and Yin-Yang as appealing and illuminating as they sound initially do have this pitfall of gender fundamentalism. And as you'll note in hindsight, gender roles have been a topic in the story from the start especially as something Sagiri struggles a lot with. I believe this has even been explicitly symbolized for example when Gabimaru and Sagiri had their fight in the island which ended by, ehem, _Sagiri sheathing Gabimaru's katana_.

Given how much it's been pushed that Sagiri becomes stronger and solves more problems by accepting her Yin (femininity, fragility, passivity, etc), it would appear this is getting too close for comfort to gender fundamentalism.

_However_, it takes a markedly different direction from what the Doshi is preaching because _both_ Sagiri and Gabimaru grow stronger not by taking the polar energy they lack from someone else but by accepting it within themselves. We already saw it with Sagiri and now it's Gabimaru's turn. He figures out Tao yes with Mei's help but it's also thanks to acknowledging the protective instincts that flare in with conscious at Mei's plight, which goes against his Yang. One of the biggest ideas held by gender fundamentalists around the world is that men are more rational and logical, while women are emotional. The two sides are shown here as what Gabimaru has been taught, that which makes him the Hollow, is to direct every action towards the objective, and ignore impulses. Instead what he does here is another step in finally accepting that he has a heart and there are just some things he can't let happen in front of him objective be dammed. Empathy hurts, that's why it's weak. But it develops into decisive and righteous action, that's why it's strong. This is Tao.

On Sagiri's side, it is enough to point out that letting her femininity guide her more doesn't in any way interfere with her chosen role.

But again, this does thread a thin rope so I'd be happy to know how you think it handles it. I think Yin-Yang is a useful thought framework but I much prefer to use it, regarding this topic, with masculinity and femininity than man and woman, because any person can display either. And I think when you see them mixed to the point that they become one, like you see with Sagiri's character, is when you reach the real balance and flow state Taoists were talking about, which is what gender fundamentalists miss. Yin-Yang is just the starting point. If you things divided, you miss the whole point. Because Taoism is the philosophy of "everything is everything". That sentence means nothing but thats because "the real Tao" cannot be named, it's too vast, too complex. But the point is to realize that it's not about masculine _and_ feminine, instead masculine _is_ feminine and vice versa. It's all seeds and fruits! Shit I'm rambling now!

Okay Gabimaru don't let it get to your head you are _not_ on Tensen level yet lol

For today's short philosophy documentary, here's [Three Buddhist Tales](https://youtu.be/J3D-Ohe0idE?si=28zX6qfxPI36h6jK)! Although Taoism and Yin-Yang are not explicitly mentioned, I like the messages about being unable to run away from one's own consciousness and of recognizing the seed of death that is inherent to all life.

Also, if any of you is having trouble accessing captions in the right language, [you could try this](https://youtu.be/EkK-yokWqLU?si=CQ6gctE6PY_De26s). Honestly don't know how good it'll work but it's worth to go for it.

**First timer ~~discovering sex is the secret to be badass~~ not regretting those monks in the slightest, French Subs**

*On today's episode:* Mei's vocabulory is expending a bit, Gantetsusai takes his revenge at hand and... [What ? Chobe is evolving!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fmitymsGww)........ [Chobe evolved into Tensen Chobe!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ63z7FeWdc)

[SEX](#hornyjail)

In order to attain the Tensen level, you have to open your chakras throught intense meditation, steady deep breathing session and a good dose of :

[SEX](#eh)

Even with two of the Tensens making out in the open, I couldn't possibly have see it coming. To be fair, it does checks out with the balance thematic, this time between two biological genders, but I'm really curious how much there is true buddhist/taoist/any other eastern religion elements here, and just the author who wanted to justify his desire to draw nude people in lewd situations. [](#kumikouninterested)

Yeah... No wonder Mei spent several hundred years hidden with Hoko, given the alternative was nauseating for everyone, except for those Monks (may their souls rot in Hell) and maybe the Tensens...

Well, let's change the subject shall we ?

This time, I liked how we got two differents characters achieving the same power-up through differents paths and philosophies.

Chobe through pure, almost animal-like, instinct, relying only on himself to decipher the Tao's mysteries (while his brother do the menial work in the background). And Gabimaru by connecting to other people, entrusting them to show him the way.

In that regard, him picturing the same water Sagiri saw in herself, was a neat detail. As if he added that metaphorical water to himself in order to balance his inner, self-destructive fire.

And to stay in the anime's main theme, those nice elements counterbalance other things I wasn't fan of. Such as that shonen trope of the protagonist gaining a sudden power-up and doing all the work while their friends are reduced to mere bystander watching their badassness in awe.

**Questions of the day**

>1) How do you feel about the whole "bochu jutsu" thing?

*Does a quick google search*

Oh dear, the whole sex thing *does* have an inspiration from an actual practice. Well, I got mixed feelings about it as I talked earlier.

>2) What do you think of the story behind Mei's scar?

At least it did give her a way out from those creeps monks. [](#sideeyes)

Rewatcher

Dub

And we get to...this part. This did lose some people as it aired and it does feel unnecessarily gross. Also, if my ears do not decieve me, the sex jutsu stuff is a Japanese word while the others are loan words, adding another piece of heresy to the whole thing. But, even though it has been clear for a while now, Tao definitely seems to be a thing so they are managing something.

Chobei taking the plants in reminds me of an old, terrible horror movie and also Blue Seed, I guess I cant escape that. It seems like being turned into Tan let's you see some Tao which is odd. This episode sets up our end run fairly well.

QotD:1 [](#scaredillya)

2 It is weird...

**First Timer in Hell’s Subbed Paradise**

I like men a little crazy. But I draw the line at neck tattoos. I have seen Kpop Demon Hunter; those are Patterns™.

Ooooh the biceps, I just want to stare at them, this is true stress relief after the day I had 😮‍💨

…is he the mutant *Darwin* (who deserved better than what Fox atrociously did)?

I really want a Demon Slayer x Hell’s Paradise crossover because I know the pretty brother is a damn hashira and Bandit King became a demon to protect his brother.

Old disabled swordsman with a mysterious little girl battling through the mystic lands? I could watch an anime about this alone.

Mei-sama?

That “Nani” was warranted. But [**Taoist Sexual Practices - Wikipedia**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoist_sexual_practices) is a fascinating launching point I used for fanfiction research. Dual cultivation girlies love it in danmei!

**Ah.**

So the Tensen are disgusting and Mei regressed as almost a coping mechanism/defense mechanism/mental state rationalization.

Time to kill them all 💃🏾🪭💅🏾😮‍💨

I never thought “slide to the left” would save lives. Here we are.

Oooooh I’m having flashbacks to <Doom Breaker> with the priest/cardinal and the sun/moon knight.

**Ew.**

Sword dude would *hate* Black⭐️Star.

Did Hoko just…get *murdered?*

***

**A Criminal’s Additional Thoughts**

I still find it funny that fucking can make you stronger. It made me giggle in danmei where dual cultivation is present. Fuck censorship and all that noise, but the way the sexual practices are described and the giving and receiving of types of qi is always divine.

But that is *disgusting* that consent means nothing to alleged enlightened, strong as shit demigods. What horrid behavior. No wonder Mei went into a mute child form and ran away. That is harrowingly and frighteningly relatable.

I still hope she has no romantic feelings for Gabi. But I do hope the Tensen are annihilated, and she can live in peace.

***

**QotD**

1. Years of wuxia/xianxia danmei, MM guideverse, certain omegaverse, and fanfiction have made me unfazed.
2. I want to put those ✨𝒷𝒾𝓉𝒸𝒽ℯ𝓈✨who hurt and forced Mei into their place in a way that would make *May I Ask For One Final Thing?* Scarlet proud.

First timer here. Cool episode. I guess everyone who's still left are getting a big, much needed power boost by mastering Tao.

Q1) I don't know, but it really contrasts with how Buddhists behave, I think. I've always heard of Taoism as being sort of a selfish or self-serving religion, because it's focused quite a bit on gaining personal immortality and I guess pursuing personal pleasure or powers.

Q2) Pretty effed up.

**Rewatcher (Dub)**

In many ways, this feels like a direct continuation of the previous episode. Where that episode had a lot of exposition about the nature of the island and the power that can be drawn from it, this one is a much more active portrayal of some of those ideas. On one hand, we have the Chobei/Toma scenes where Chobei in particular seems to be tapping into that power to a great degree. Not only is he physically stronger, he's able to withstand a seemingly fatal wound, and is able to detect the Doshi's Tao when most humans apparently aren't. And based on the Doshi's reaction, it seems like his Tao level is unnatural compared to other humans who have an internal balance.

Meanwhile, Gabimaru starts to come to grips with what Mei is trying to tell him, and comes to accept that balance within himself. We've seen him start to change since the start of the season, as he's embraced his softer side a bit more. And this is in large part due to both Sagiri and Mei's influence, and comes across in his actions here as he tries to stop them from taking Mei against her will. And while on the topic of that scene, we do learn a bit more about the true nature of the Tenshin's own power, including the process they take to enhance it which ends in sex, showing that all those sexual scenes had some meaning beyond the obvious fan service. However, when it comes to basically forcing a still-underage girl to go through that against her will... Yeah, I'm with Gabimaru and Gantetsusai's anger and wanting to stop that shit from happening.

One other thing I'll say about these two parts is that they do a really good job of balancing the continued exposition and the more exciting battle sequences. A lot of times combining those two things can affect the excitement a bit, as good as the action might be. But here it worked out really well overall.

And with that ending, at least some of our characters have reached their destination of Horai, with yet another seeming casualty of the show with Hoko. Now that they're there, and we just have 2 episodes left in the season, you know things are going to pick up even more now.

First Timer - Subbed

Well, that was a very quick learning of tan by all parties, especially Gabimaru. And again the "talking is a free action" problem with the pacing of the combat, with like... two paragraphs of conversation being allowed between Gabimaru and dissection Asaemon guy without any interference in the middle of an active fight. K.

I'm gonna be the unpopular guy again (as though I'm not already, I'm probably the biggest naysayer consistently in this rewatch...) and say that I don't think the weak-strong finding-your-center works narratively or in the world-building. None of the fights that Gabimaru's lost so far (like... two...) have been because he's been emotionally unbalanced. He's always just been physically outmatched: STRONG STRONG > strong strong. All the strongest opponents can't say that they've been especially balanced either, undermining this whole thing that using Tao is linked to finding a balance between... Some two extremes, very vague which extremes you can choose. And sure, Gabimaru finds more power in protecting Mei, but, uh, what were the enlightened Tensen protecting that gave them their power? It just doesn't work narratively at all.

Then in world-building... has *no one* noticed this effect before, and that Taoist philosophy literally gives superhuman strength and durability? You'd think that in a society that preaches Taoism there'd be at least some people or fighters that accomplish strong-weak yin-yang and become demonstrably stronger for it, but... Everyone's really, really surprised.

Urgh. Well, easiest way to create an easy target to hate, just threaten SA/rape on the young (?) girl. I'm... kind of over this trope TBH. Sure, it apparently has historical and philosophical backgrounds, but still, urgh. Doesn't really help that Mei's been more of a plot device and less of a character so far, so it doesn't land super hard either IMO.

1) Gross. But also narratively overdone, though this is a new gross take on it for me.

2) It's like the "show a character kicking a puppy on-screen so we know it's alright to hate them" level of character-writing.

**First-timer, subbed** 

Nooo, not Groot, you can't just kill him! That was a shocking end to a surprisingly win-filled episode. 

First we had bandit boy turn into something Tensen-like (or maybe Mei-like which is Tensen-lite) and go all out against that doshi, which was so satisfying to see. Also, turns out his strength and the one thing that doesn't change for him is his desire to protect his little brother - awwww. Did not expect him to be such a good onii-chan. I love the relationship between the two brothers. May they live long.

Next we see swordmaster and Gabi decimating the lesser monsters but Mei is not happy with them being so strong strong. They need to be strong weak in order to harness Tao. Maomao Asaemon finally gets what she's saying and it takes Gabi all of seconds to master Tao haha. 

I loved how both Gabi and swordmaster had the same disgusted reaction to the doshi wanting to get Mei back so they could have congress with her as part of their training. Shows their hearts are in the right place. And Gabi getting triggered after hearing about Mei getting marked with scars because it reminds him of his wife and this proving to be the catalyst to him reaching his full potential was very satisfying indeed. 

But to end the episode on that note though. Damn damn damn. I don't want Groot to die. He devoted himself to protecting and raising Mei. He deserves better than to die such a quick death at that evil Tensen's hand. Please let him somehow live. So many others have. But I have a feeling this is like Tenzen. We just have to accept it. :(

### Second-time rewatcher, subs

Yeah, as expected, Chobei is getting stronger with how mastering Tao. Maybe eating that monster flesh actually did really worked here peefetcly. Note that vine-looking marks on his arms and the neck whiuch growing every single time, maybe he is getting fused with the Shinsenkyo creatures somewhat. This huge power come with a huge price, as he slowly losing his sanity and his sense of humanity. Maybe humans are the biggest monsters after all.

That same marks can be noticed on Mei. Yes, actually says that Tao is must be only strong and weak, not only strong with no weakness. Maybe because humans believes more power the better. As for Fuchi, these monster creatures are literal Heaven, as he can analyze them for scientific reasons, and he made Gantetsusai's hook-arm. And also that is also expected Mei has deep connection to the Tensen, as she is kinda related to them, and originally belonged in the Horai Palace, but escaped somehow. Maybe because something something Tao. She might be not human, but showed some signs which is very typical human.

How can these weird sages be defeated: mastering the Tao, a harmony of strong and weak. And why the Tesen is the pinnacle of the Tao: because they are genderless, as they possess yin and yang energy at the same time, which is sharpened by the bocho jutsu, which they can do anytime they want. Yin and yang is male/female, and that is why needs bunga bunga. For normal humans, they have to rely on a communion of a male and female. Even Mei is similar to the Tensen, she is rather a defective one, because only yin energy she possess, and that is feminine only unlike the rest. If there was a male conuterpart to her who possess only yang, he would be in the same fate. There were two choice: be baninshed from Horai forever, or live the rest of her life as a training partner, technically a slave. And looks like she accepted her choice as a runaway and never returning back, as it was her decision. Yes, she was treated like an onbject, not a human being. No wonder why the humans could understood her feelings.

Gabimaru remembrs what Sagiri said, that was about strong and weak. He showed strength before her, but the weak side was did not killed her. As for the Iwagakure chief, he might knew something Tao-related, which might be the reason behind his inhuman powers.

Strong and weak, it is like a rippling wave of water, a state of mind becoming something harmonious and calm.

Meanwhile Sagiri and co. managed to enter into Horai where an even bigger Tensen threast awaits. Houko decapitated, this does not mean good.

> 1) How do you feel about the whole "bochu jutsu" thing?

Weird.

> 2) What do you think of the story behind Mei's scar?

It was caused due to her being disobedient.