Oshi no Ko Rewatch - Season 2, Episode 13 Discussion

**Longtime B-Komachi Fan!**

Poor Ruby. It must have been an awful blow to find out that the person she lived for and longed to meet again had actually died before she was reborn into this life as Ruby. The fact that she worked this hard to become an idol and yet never had a chance of meeting Gorou (as he was) again has to feel like fate is just too cruel. If nothing else, hopefully she can take comfort in the fact that Gorou was wearing her keychain when he died, showing that he still thought of her years later and truly did love her, even if it wasn't in the same way she wanted.

[](#yuitears)

Akane tells Aqua that he shouldn't blame himself because even though he put her in this situation, hoping she would find the body, she really didn't have much to do with it... and it's true, she didn't. But I think it would have been a lot more interesting if the story did use Akane's detective skills in this way, and really highlighted the moral dilemma of what Aqua did here. Instead, Akane and Ruby were led to that place by divine intervention/mischievous birds. This version was *fine*, but the alternative could've been *fantastic*.

[](#rengethink)

And what was with that surprise after credits murder scene?! The first time I watched it, I wasn't even up to that point in the manga yet!

[](#iwahorror)

Also, anyone who was watching the English dub on Disney+ with the captions turned on like me may have noticed the name of the man in this scene, who was also shown briefly visiting Ai's grave. This would've made Aqua and Ruby's investigation *so* much easier.

[**spoiler alert**](#azusalaugh)

**Questions of the Day:**

1) I'm not a fan of it, to be honest. Stories beginning with a reincarnation are so common in anime at this point that I wasn't expecting any supernatural elements beyond that, and for the most part, Oshi no Ko has been fairly grounded up to this point. I'll reserve judgement until I see where the story takes this, but I feel like everything from finding Gorou's body and the conclusions Ruby arrives at because of it didn't *need* the supernatural element to work.

2) I've already read into the season 3 content, but one of the things I'm most interested in after these reveals is that a role reversal seems to be coming for Ruby and Aqua. Ruby is heading down a path of vengeance [season 3/manga] >!plus using lies and her acting career to further her goals!< just like Aqua, whereas Aqua is starting to mellow out now that he believes his target is dead. But Akane's deductions and that after credits scene suggest his investigation is not over, so I'm really looking forward to seeing how that plays out! [](#concealedexcitement)

3) I always watch the credits because of moments like this. [](#smugasuna)

***

Anime/manga comparison coming soon! [](#mugiwait)

**Rewatcher/Manga Reader**

* Poor Poor Ruby She's going through a lot
* That ending MV - Not me making up a maimai chart for it (I'm blaming GDQ for showcasing maimai last night)
* And the post credits scene - Pun Unintended but what a way to kill the mood

Questions

* QOTD 1 - It needs to be done well for any story and I don't mind it here
* QOTD 3 - If I recall correctly I didn't the first time mostly because I was avoiding spoilers so I didn't know there was one (A general issue I have with Post-Credits scenes on my first watch)

**Anime/Manga Comparison:**

These last four episodes of the season adapted the second half of volume 7 as well as volume 8 of the manga, bringing us halfway through the series!

This part of the story didn't have many changes. Of course, the new B-Komachi music video was much enhanced by the animation, sound, and being shown in full. The stylistic representations of Ruby inspiring Himura and Akane's mind racing when she figured out the clue Aqua was missing were anime-only. The eerie shadows and reflections pointed out by u/eightcheesepizza in the previous episode thread were also anime-only. Interestingly though, the sky reflecting the mood of the scene where Aqua told Akane his investigation update was the same in the manga!

The after credits scene is actually from [manga volume 11,] >!*after* the identity of the killer is already known! There was more build-up to this scene as well which showed the dying character was another aspiring star.!<

**First Timer**

[RIP My ship](#toradorasalute)

Well... *maybe*! Somewhat similarly to the first season, OnK's season 2 finale is more future setup than tangible conclusion or closure, but it is very effective setup nevertheless, as Aqua believes he's closed the book on his revenge, while Ruby is only getting started on hers.

But before talking about any specifics, I will say that the most noticeable thing in this episode for me is just how it absolutely nails the vibe. Like, this episode is really perfectly unnerving, y'know? It opens up a lot of roads to the future, and few of them seem particularly positive; almost every interaction feels like it has an extra dark layer to it. When music is used, it's intently eerie or emotional music, and a lot of the episode straight up just doesn't use music at all! It prefers diagetic sounds and larger environmental establishing shots to really convey how this otherwise positive trip has left most of our characters with some very uncomfortable feelings, whether or not they know it. And speaking of music, the very idol-poppy Pop in 2, which we end the episode, certainly feels so perfectly... strange and dissonant rather than the intended effect[, when Ruby looks like this for half of it](https://imgur.com/a/hq4UlPd) and given the larger subject matter which we've tackled in these last 2 episodes. I would've said this last episode as well, but OnK does have a really strong grasp on its tone, and that's very much appreciated!

Anyway, back to shipping wars! Akane wins, I guess, although there's obviously a bit of a caveat there. Last episode's reveals around Sarina and Goro's past family lives don't exactly change how you view them, but they do definitely strongly contextualize traits which we'd already ascribed to them, Aqua's case being survivor's guilt obviously, something he'd dealt with in his past life as well, and makes his current situation all the more tragic. And we do see some of that here in an interesting way, with Aqua apologizing to Akane over her finding his body. On the one hand, Aqua is almost actually apologizing to Akane over *his own murder*. and even without that crazy bit of context, though, Akane remains Aqua's anchor with the aspect of these darker emotions, and [very nicely points out to him how problematic this general thinking is](https://imgur.com/a/hbenOdY). At the same time, though, Aqua does have to reasonably apologize for using her, to an extent now, but really, since the start.

In a sense, there should be a good bit of closure for both of them here. Aqua can fully acknowledge his past and, through that, strive to move forward. To recognize the therapeutic nature of Akane for him, but to continue with her regardless of that. Likewise, Akane was ready to let go of Aqua, and at least on paper, recognizes that problematic element of her attachment to him, but also proves her emotions go beyond that. It would almost solve my practical problems with their relationship being fairly unhealthy... *if this was actually true*. Unfortunately, the caveat is that, of course, Aqua's revenge isn't actually as over and closed as he thinks it is, and we're a second away from it flaring up again, as the end of this episode makes perfectly clear. More than that, Akane knows this to an extent as well! Although Aqua's advance understandably puts her in a bit of a haze, she's still basically the closest person besides the audience to the mystery at this point, and thus, should be aware there's more to it and to the future of Aqua's declaration. So maybe it's just my bias, but I do think their relationship still has quite a few hurdles to overcome before being legit.

[](#bigthink)

(Well, I'd feel bad for Kana either way though [](#therethere))

Aqua isn't the star of this episode, though, that honor definitely goes to Ruby and her newly acquired and very distressing double black star eyes! I talked about how big a deal it was to see her get a black star back in episode 2, but this is *really* taking things far. I mean, even in his own revenge quest never did Aqua's star double up like this, which says a lot about how Ruby feels right now, [as does this fantastic sequence](https://www.sakugabooru.com/data/a09525255b3dfb6576f5523c5d7ae704.mp4) where she vows to murder whoever's responsible, stylistically mirroring [Aqua's vow from episode 1](https://www.sakugabooru.com/data/92095c2adc9cdb09bbfc21fd25b19ee1.mp4) thanks to the great work of Shun Takeda once again.

Again, I didn't write for last episode, but it's reveals are very much relevant here. Ruby's attachment to Goro goes quite a ways beyond simple puppy love. By her own words, as someone who's parents weren't there for her in her last moments for her first life, and who tragically lost her parents in the second one, Goro not only gave her that incredibly important comfort back when she was Sarina, that experience was so meaningful to her, that he's the reason she still has a will to live as Ruby, despite everything that happened. So, yeah, finding out he was murdered by the same person who killed Ai (The other figure of comfort and inspiration in both of her lives) would do a huge number on her, and give her that same tragic driving force as Aqua used to have. So much so that she just picks up the real reason he went into acting, and ironically, leading her to wish him success in the revenge quest he just gave up. So whether or not Aqua's will continue, Ruby now finds herself involved in the same cycle.

This all sets up a lot of mystery going forward! For one, what's up with Crow Girl? Last episode mentioning the Amaterasu centered Ama-no-Iwato myth (Which, as an aside, once you learn of it, you start seeing that it pops up in anime *a lot*) first reminded me of that one Ep.1 scene where Aqua and Ruby were calling themselves embodiments of Amaterasu to freak Miyako out lol [](#cantbehelped), but more importantly, it reminded me of Yatagarasu, the messenger crow god who's very linked to Amaterasu. So our crows are certainly more than just a classic device to create an ominous mood. Whether they're purely symbolic or they and the girl are literally supernatural, they instantly allude to the mythological, supernatural element by their presence. And Crow Girl here sure seems to know a lot about what happened 16 years ago for someone who doesn't look to be nearly that old, so I'd guess she's not exactly a normal human.

Her mysterious nature that really needs to be elaborated on aside, she does also drop an interesting reveal on us, with one of the culprits for Goro's murder being a middle school-aged person. First thought would be that it's Dad, and while that kind of lines up with Ai, it really doesn't with Himekawa's mom (Age-wise that is). So either there was some really weird and uncomfortable stuff going on in Dad's life that I'd rather not think about, or there's yet another third party to connect back to here (Or maybe even that Dad isn't actually the dad? But that tracks even less so, I find it very unlikely). Plus, he literally just murders another person we've never seen before in the post-credits scene! Another culprit/person who knows, another woman like Ai or Himekawa's mom? Those star eyes she has are obviously rather conspicuous, but where all of these threads lead to will have to be seen in future seasons, I guess.

[](#mugiwait)

> What do you think of the story adding supernatural elements (aside from the initial reincarnation) this late in the game?

Really depends on execution, honestly. For now, I'm not fully seeing how that meshes very well with the story we have here, but I could totally flip depending on how it's expanded on later!

> Any predictions on where the story will go from here?

[Nope](#mugiwait)

**First Timer, Subbed**

Another ED change, [when we dive into Ruby's eye](https://i.imgur.com/CgkVaqV.gif) and get the darkness, and then the video glitches afterward (sorry for the poor quality gif). So I guess the ED was foreshadowing Ruby's descent the whole time, with the ink droplets.

The revelation that Aqua was leading Akane to uncover parts of the mystery, and using her the whole time, was kinda crazy. I mean it makes the last episode make sense now, but it really shows how singularly focused he's been on revenge. Supposedly he feels free now, and free to pursue a real relationship with Akane... but can we/Akane trust that he's not still just trying to keep her for some use? Maybe we'll see, if he has emotionally opened up with her in the months since.

My head is also spinning its wheels about the fact that we never heard Aqua's wish at the shrine. Or that there were 7 mallet strikes for 6 people. That's gotta be sus, right? I'm not great at a lot of things, but I can count!

That music video was creepy af. Between Ruby's dark star eyes and the ED's video glitches (which had me worried they were gonna do something creepy at the end), I was sure I was going to have nightmares last night. (It was fine though.)

QOTD:

1) It felt sudden to me. Why does this crowgirl want Ruby to search for the answer? She's kind of like a Macguffin giving Ruby new information out of thin air, and then refusing to explain. Are the crows focused on vengeance or something? What is the crow agenda?

Also, I looked it up and crowgirl is voiced by Hina Kino, who was Hanako in *Asobi Asobase*, so now I can't stop imagining her screeching something silly.

2) Seems like we'll continue to see Ruby's descent. I wonder if she'll ever talk to Aqua about it. I wonder if it will ever lead them to question each other's past identities. (Frankly I always have to suspend my disbelief that they never talked about that.)

Well, good thing I don't have to wait a while to watch the continuation...

**First time watcher first time commenting**

They really pulled a bait and switch regarding the breakup huh

Looking back at episode 22 and Aqua's inner monologue regarding Akane, I don't understand how he had that line of reasoning only to later rescind it in this episode. It works to make this outcome suprising of course, but the change feels more like a character flip instead of character development. Akane was better off without him, but now he thinks otherwise.


>What do you think of the story adding supernatural elements (aside from the initial reincarnation) this late in the game?

I don't mind it, because there was always the mystery of how and why Ruby and Aqua reincarnated.

What I question though is the implementation. Supernatural girl just shows up and tells Ruby information. And its the right amount of information to facilitate her descent. Leaving out information like Aqua being Gorou's reincarnation. It feels a little contrived. Like the story needed Ruby to be at this state of being, so how else to force that development?

>Any predictions on where the story will go from here?

My guess is Akane's movie production and the father is part of the staff. Kana's line about the movie seemed like lead-in for the next arc.


>Did you watch the after credits scene?

After watching it it makes me wonder how much of current Ruby and Aqua are Sarina and Gorou, and how much of their current selves is influenced by being the children of this guy. Like are the black stars and the killer intent a result of being genetically linked to this guy?

**Rewatcher**

PREPARE FOR TROUBLE, AND [MAKE IT DOUBLE!](https://imgchest.com/p/qe4gqnp3o7j). Probably my most rewatched episode of the series.

I am expecting the show to now fully lean into the unsettling undercurrent it always had. Only in this episode do you realize how much Ruby's bubblyness was required to balance out Aqua's dark. The bubblyness which is now [entirely, strikingly absent](https://imgchest.com/p/pg73oe6qv7r)

Aqua's conversation with Akane would otherwise be a pivotal moment and a hope for a better turn. He apologizes to her, on the surface for just the fact he invited her on this trip and it turned out this way, but then everything, his self-serving nature, how he fed her information hoping that something will click, how he has been using everybody around him. In turn, Akane tells him exactly what he needed to hear for two entire lifetimes - [that it was not his fault](https://imgchest.com/p/na7kkj5lk78) and that he can lean on others for support, that he doesn't have to go it alone. The thought of not being able to support him anymore even moves her to tears, and [Aqua realizes the depth of her feelings](https://imgchest.com/p/md7obm5od4p). Now, we knew he was not going with Kana [the moment it dawned on him that she was in fact an idol](https://imgchest.com/p/lqyelxne34d), but here he purposefully [chooses to take a positive step forward with Akane](https://imgchest.com/p/md7obm5md4p).

However, in light of what Akane is withholding - that Aqua's quest might be far from over - and how he truly feels liberated from its weight now is why he chooses to move forward - makes even this moment unsettling. And she really [does now have all the pieces in front of her](https://imgchest.com/p/wl7lwq5qp4x). The final thread to sew them together is reincarnation though, and [with the romance debuff, and the chance for domestic bliss, now in effect](https://imgchest.com/p/xny86a2go4b), I don't see her managing it (save for divine guidance).

Speaking of which, Ruby learns directly from Crow Girl that there was a second accomplice, directly outside the hospital even, and that he was middle-school aged (so 11/12 to 14/15?). While Akane does [her best to not reveal everything, Ruby almost immediately puts together](https://imgchest.com/p/md7obm52d4p) what Aqua has been up to all this while - and [fully gives into the black star of her own](https://imgchest.com/p/o24a65nz2yl). Interestingly, there is a discrepancy in Ruby and Aqua's realizations, as Aqua is 100% sure that the culprit is their dad, while Ruby refers to the second guy only as the culprit/killer. Regardless, her prayer has been heard.

1. I like stories with soft supernatural stuff, or themes like divine retribution, karma and self-fulfilling prophecies. I did dislike though Crow Girl giving Ruby the hint to the second killer directly, although maybe you could explain it as the Goddess helping things along? Ruby also did [lift the Ai keychain from Gorou's body, something that is a no-no](https://imgchest.com/p/ljyqkw5nny2), which may have led to this short intervention.

2. I've read exactly 5 chapters ahead so my bold prediction is that Dark Ruby is intriguing and I am excited to see more of her on screen.

3. The post-credits does leave no doubts that the second culprit is in fact the dad, as we see him [snuffing out another young woman with the star](https://imgchest.com/p/qe4gqn8vj7j). This also confirms our worst suspicions, that his habit is serial in nature and that he has a type. Also the fact that he was middle-school-aged when the twins were born means that he was *even* younger 3 years ago when Himekawa was born. Considering that Himekawa's mom was an [adult married woman](https://imgchest.com/p/a846o89ro4x), the implications are....very unpleasant - and maybe go some way to explain his twisted nature? It also provides perhaps a motive for Himekawas' parents double suicide - or maybe it was a murder suicide? Or maybe just a double murder?

Some things to note-

- One of the show's running themes is a debate on Nature vs. Nurture. We know that Aqua's dark gives him a strange magnetism. It is demonstrated by Ruby here too. Anemone notes that bright-eyed Ruby was alluring alright ([a point is made again of how much she stands out in terms of looks](https://imgchest.com/p/m9yxn6qxq7q)) but seemed to still lack originality. Dark-eyed Ruby, however, is [something entirely unique and much more compelling](https://imgchest.com/p/qe4gqn8dj7j), and Anemone [makes use of that](https://imgchest.com/p/agyvn5ldj48) multiple times in the music video. Now that we learn that the bio dad also has the dark stars, I wonder if the point being made is this darkness in the twins is somewhat innate or genetic, and the unique product of both their parents is what sets them apart, not just their trauma.

- The music video also has a darker vibe, beyond even Ruby's prominent black eyes and that you can tell which parts were filmed before and after the reveal based on them. The MV starts out with [Ruby in red monochrome, while the other two girls start off in colour. Then, Ruby tags Mem, who then tags Kana, unable to outrun it](https://imgchest.com/p/md7obmvgr4p). The [minor-key refrain has the girls sing in this monochrome shade](https://imgchest.com/p/9ryd2kezl4k), which then [switches to colors once the major-key chorus](https://imgchest.com/p/n87wnajvg7x) comes in. The lyrics also seem to be about a [secret, ill-advised, slightly obsessive relationship](https://imgchest.com/p/5xy2okg3z4l) - being on theme while retaining a typical idol-parasocial implication.

- The above also explains perhaps [why the single blew-up](https://imgchest.com/p/lqyelxz6m4d), although I would like to note that in a year since, the [actual video on Youtube](https://youtu.be/c7E-tgmFuzw?si=S04xKHdM8k0r4rJ7) has handily surpassed the in-universe view count

- There is also cool attention to detail in the style of music itself. The old B-Komachi songs are older in style as well, featuring more sing-alongy lines, more traditional instrumentation, more cheer-focused in nature. The new single reflects modern idol music style, pop-synth, production heavy, has the bassy trap beat in the middle, greater emphasis on (and intensity in) the dance choreography. This is even more noticeable in the [B-side "Say What"](https://youtu.be/iKbV_PZccts?si=7OfrlMEwvA28pebJ). Also time to plug the actual choreography videos for the two - [1](https://youtu.be/J6cLgJ3uhTY?si=-XGeIXGTgnHYPafB), [2](https://youtu.be/tQKcpCdlGOM?si=yxnlt0sD1E8cz1Cg) -, once again done as if it was a dance-practice video released by an actual group.

- [Ruby's star is significantly dimmed and smaller](https://imgchest.com/p/ne7b6a3vmy5) immediately after finding out the body. [It lights up again](https://imgchest.com/p/qb4zpxrw5yj) as she receives details from Crow Girl on the night Gorou was murdered

- [Kana has also started throwing more complaints out on set](https://imgchest.com/p/xny86a9q24b), a significant difference from her behaviour on "Sweet Today" where she held her reservations to herself, shut up and got on with the job. A sign of her growing more comfortable in expressing her star power freely - like she did as a kid

- [Kana extends a peace branch to Akane in their onsen conversation, openly admitting that she is jealous](https://imgchest.com/p/m9yxn6qmp7q), to balance out the open fact that Akane looks up to her. Of course, she also throws in a bit of snark in about Akane's relationship with Aqua, which backfires as Akane lets her know it has become something more.

Alright, so. I uh. Deliberately didn't watch this episode when Season 2 was actually airing. I liked where episode 12 ended and just *knew* that this was going to be closer to sequel bait than an actual conclusion. And well, it starts this weekend, so...

A kiss! I was not expecting Aqua to have calmed down so much he would honestly, fully, give in to living a normal life. Romance can finally happen! Poor Kana!

And this is how Ruby picks up the revenge plot. Because the god of entertainment, that these kids once pretended to be, wants them to entertain her! I assume. Things are clearly getting supernatural here.

Oh. She got *double* dark eye stars. Scary.

Man, the show jumps genres so fast and so freely. One of my favorite things about it, but still, going from the horror shot of Ruby's Revenge Vow to yet another look into the horrors of what goes into Idol Production.

Also, I so want to go to a giant hot spring like that. Like, now. Please?

Once again, poor Kana.

Oh no. Ruby *still* has two black eye stars. Didn't Aqua just have his one eye star darkened, aside from like, his absolute worst moments? Is Ruby somehow even more consumed by this than he was, all this time?

Oh, Ruby figured out what Aqua was doing all this time, too. Yeah, she's getting scary.

Uhhhhhhh. Was this idol MV *supposed* to be terrifying? I do love that you can see some parts were indeed recorded earlier, the green stage bits from the first night have a genuinely happy Ruby with her one white eye star, while everything else has her in full horror mode. Because uh. Oh my gosh did they make that a happy horror mashup, I would be afraid to find Ruby Popping In on me somewhere now.

I got way too sucked in, as expected. Wish I had managed to write more while I was at it.

Wait, what is this after credit scene? Who is this, with stars in her eyes? Is that older and evil again Aqua? Oh, no, that's the actual dad, but- Who is this with stars in her eyes? It's not just an Ai thing now?

1) I don't think it really did, this feels perfectly foreshadowed *by* the kids reincarnating and pretending to be gods of entertainment. Now we ave a creepy child god looking for entertainment, showing up here in the place they both died and reincarnated. Honestly, I feel like the reincarnation bit has not been used enough, both of them are really not leaning enough into the Second Life thing that much still, especially knowing that the other is also a reincarnator. How they have not talked about it between each other, or gone looking to see if there's anyone else like them, is one of the hardest things for me to believe about this show.

2) Too many possible directions! And a time skip to kick things off, how rude! You're just going to *skip* Aqua and Akane starting a *real* relationship like that? Ruuuuude!

3) Yes, please explain! But actually don't, I've been fighting to keep going through this show as spoiler free as possible, I want to experience it all first hand.

*On that note- Talk of gods is my thoughts on whats happening. I've been expecting more supernatural from this show since the very beginning, and am just happy to finally see it here.

And so into the finale.

Yep. That's him.

Gee I wonder whose corpse that is...

Yeah it seems like all his loose ends are tied up for now.

Yep it's the crow girl again.

Always funny to hear Kana's bitching lol.

Gee I wonder what happened to that doctor...

And I wonder what happened with those guys...

And so now it's Ruby's turn to activate her dark star eyes.

And so Kana realised she's got no chance.

How convenient...

So, here's their new song. I _really_ like this song and the MV for it.

You can really tell which scenes were shot before Ruby discovered his body.

The actual Pop In 2 MV currently has 51 million views, double even what's shown in the show with only 20 million.

Overall, this is still the good part of the show. 9/10.

And so into S3 in a few days time.

Questions:

1. I mean I guess it's not too unexpected considering the already existing supernatural elements.
2. I do know how this all ends.
3. And so that guy killed someone again.